P5, P6, P7, P8. What does it all mean?

[StarOfValkyrie]

Many thanks.

I think they are measures of a child's ability/attainment before they reach National Curriculum Level One.

Unless they are periods in the school day - perhaps a little context might make this easier!

I assume you mean level-wise?

The P scales are the levels used for children with SEN (or - if in year 1, just children who are still below a level 1, but who may well catch up soon). They are the stages that lead up to a National Curriculum Level 1.

I will see if I can find a helpful link..

oh my first thought was the scottish school system of Primary 5, 6,7, 8 so school years........

nationalstrategies.standards.dcsf.gov.uk/node/169991

In Scotland, P is your level in primary school -

therefore my children are currently in p2, p3, p5 - Primary 2, etc - 2nd, 3rd and 5th year in primary school, equivalent in England would be years 1, 2 and 4.

No, it is an English reception class. Are all children on these then in that year>

Thanks lifeissweet and everyone. I'll look at that link.

They shouldn't be on the p scales (pivats), which are generally used for children who haven't acheived Foundation Stage objectives at the end of Y1.

In your case at the end of YR, it probably refers to their stage on the Foundation Stage 'profile' scores.

I would think, anyway.....

So are any children in reception working on something 'other' than p scales? And if so what are THEY called?

It's so confusing.

It's not my ds (although he does have SN). I've been given some data to analyse and I haven't got a clue what it means.

It says some kids are averaging P5 when the enter reception and leave on P7 and that this is an indication of excellent provision.

Should I send my child there?

They're working on the Foundation Stage profile point - they are numbered on a scale 1-9

Here's a copy - better look at it quickly before they change everything!!www.qcda.gov.uk/resources/assets/poster_v8_aw.pdf

That's the stupidest thing I've ever seen. My 3.5 year old is on level 9 for somet things where he hasn't mastered level 2!

Thanks though. I think one set of data is from that form, and the other must be year 1. It isn't clear I have to say.

I'll hand that over to a reception teacher!!

A 7 is thought to predict a 2A at the end of KS1. However, the correlation between FS profile points and KS1 results is much-disputed. Unfortunately, the profile points are used by the great educational computer to make KS1 predictions, and aim to cause maximum resentment and animosity between YR and KS1 teachers !

Oh well. I so in year 1, P5 - P7 means working below NC levels.

Hmmmmm. On this basis they say they can meet my ds' needs. This is silly.......

Lots of children enter Y1 still on FS profile points!

Assessment against profile points will continue until the end of the Spring Term in Y1. If the Y1 child hasn't achieved all profile points by that stage (i.e. they haven't met objectives to enable them to be moved on to the national curriculum level 1C), then they will be assessed against p-scales (pivats). Pivats are an assessment tool for children who are working towards a NC level 1.

I have no idea why they are using P-levels to describe progress at reception level. In reception children are assessed on the Foundation Stage Profile. The P-levels are specifically designed to assess children with SEN when they are at National Curriculum Level age (i.e. year 1)

The profile, as I understand it, does not work entirely in order. I think (and I may stand corrected) that once a child has achieved levels 1-3 on the profile, they can achieve the other stages in any order. Hence, your child may well have a 9, but not a 5.

I am sure I am making this more confusing and not helping at all.

What I'm basically saying is that I have no idea what the stats they are giving you are supposed to prove.

FS profile point 5 assumes a 2B at the end of Y2 (average), and FS profile point 7 assumes a 2A (just above average).

Lifeissweet is correct - profile points may be collected in any order after 1-3. A '9' is rare and supposed to be equivalent to approx a 1B.

Okay, thanks. My conclusion then, with your help, is that these documents mean nothing and are no indication whatsoever of whether this school can meet the needs of my ds

Depends if they are what we think they are !

As I said the FS profile points are extrapolated into 'expectations at the end of KS1', so they will be telling the teachers where your son should be at the end of Y2, on the basis of his achievements at the end of YR.

As regards any special needs, I certainly wouldn't rely on scores. Your child's teacher will be aware if he is having difficulties. YR teachers are making observations of the children all the time and know them like the back of their hands! Talk to the teacher and file the results in a drawer - you never know, you may need them.

Saying that, if FS profiles haven't been completed by the end of the Spring Term in Y1 (i.e. the child is not yet a 1C), that flags a special need - intervention programmes should already be in place by then, as the teachers will be aware of the children's needs.

'Your child's teacher will be aware if he is having difficulties.'

Sadly this hasn't been my experience so far. The teacher thinks he's doing fine, because it is child-led and he plays by himself not disturbing anyone and knows all his shapes, colours numbers up to 20 and can read letters.

They tell me 'he's doing fine, today he crossed his fingers and said 'x' and I say 'sure, but tell me who's name he knows in this class, who he played with, who his friends are?' and they look at me and say 'but he's very well settled here and we can't force him to do anything other than what he chooses, because it is all 'child-led' you know'!

But part of their observations should be for social and communication skills.

On your list of scores, you will have points for social development, emotional development and language and communication skills.

'Child-led' shouldn't mean letting the child get on with whatever s/he's doing all day - there should be teaching times, exploring times, directed play. AND the teacher should be observing ALL the time.

What does your son say to you about what he's doing at school?

He doesn't say anything. He doesn't understand the question.

I've seen his learning journal:

It says 'enjoying making music' (stimming - flapping to be precise)

'enjoys the wall magnets' (stimming - spinning to be precise)

'enjoys sharing a book and is inquisitive, asking 'what's that?' (stimming - verbal to be precise).

All he ever does at hom is spin things, flapp things and say 'what's that?'

The school haven't got a clue!
He get's a 'look' when he is stimming and all the photos in his learning journal show that. Grrrrrrr

Have you had scores for SD, ED and LCS?
(with the 'p' scores you were talking about in OP?)

I haven't had any scores at all for ds. The scores are for anonymous children in the nursery, reception and Yr 1 of the school he will attend in Sept.

They handed me a list of EYFS boxes with about a 6th of highlighed with highlighter. I went through it myself and highlighted another 6th, and another 6th. I know what he knows but he doesn't show it there because they just ignore him and let him get away with stimming all day, so never get to observe him do anything else.