School want a meeting, I prefer to do it by email...

[annielouise]

Sorry it's long...
My son's school want a meeting. He's been bullied and has retaliated. The meeting isn't specifically about his retaliation - he's getting detention for that which I don't have a problem with. What I do have a problem with is that they're now downgrading it to a problem "between" my son and this other boy whereas for months they seemed to be accepting it was bullying - albeit my son is retaliating (which is not great). Also,I've told them my concern they're not following their bullying procedure from what I can gather - recording of incidents, speaking about bullying in assembly, details about bullying up around the school. Worst of all they've left my son in a vulnerable position on a number of occasions - e.g. sending him on a school trip with no teacher on the school bus or at the leisure centre where they went which resulted in him being ganged up on by 5, pushed into walls, jumped on, called gay and saying he's got mental health issues on the bus back home (no teacher with them), empty bottles thrown at him etc and supply teachers on other occasions that haven't been able to control the class who my son has gone up to for help who have done nothing. The school trip was when they knew these boys were troublemakers yet they put no teacher with them, knowing that so no foresight.

The thing is I'm so stressed and wired up and close to breaking down in tears I don't think a meeting would be conducive to anything. My experience of them is there'll be 2 or 3 of them against me (I know I can take someone else in but it'll be me having to do all the talking) and I'd be at a disadvantage. I'm feeling emotional, naturally, and envisage it falling apart as I have very little faith in them. I've already had one conversation with them which fell apart as she only focused on my son retaliating not what they were doing to stop the bullying in the first place. I also know how they can twist things to their advantage so I imagine it will end up confrontational.

I've requested my concerns be answered in writing - either email or letter - and am willing to listen to anything they have to say if they write it down to me. I've explained this will give me a chance to digest it and respond accordingly. To my mind it takes the emotional aspect out of it. They don't seem to be ready to do this, inanely keep offering a meeting as they know they will have the upper hand. Am I being unreasonable to insist communication is by written word to avoid confusion/confrontation? And are they being unreasonable to insist I go in?

Apart from retaliating to bullying my son has an exemplary record - and I really mean this. I think he's the only boy in his class not to have any behaviour warning at all (yr 7).

My son is refusing to go back at the moment and has been off since last Thursday. They don't see particularly bothered, just saying they look forward to his return.

i think its best to go in, its not about who has the upper hand. just go in and listen to them.

Go in. Speak to them face to face.

Write it down before hand, concentrate on the main issues - use one or two examples and don't bring too many things up at once.

You need to see them face to face, even if it is upsetting for you. They will understand you are emotional about this.

Do you have someone who will go with you? A bit of support is a really good thing.

The only way to communicate the issues properly will be with a meeting. You could ask for an agenda for the meeting prior to attending so that your responses are prepared and you know what issues they want to discuss.

I have been in the same situation so know how intimidating it can be. However school staff are probably used to parents getting quite emotional over their children.

Have you got a parent partnership group in your area, I think they can sometimes send someone to a meeting with you.

As others have said, think through you main issues & make a note of them before the meeting. It might be worth asking the school to keep a record of whats been agreed for the future, so you have something to refer back to after the meeting.

Good Luck.

Thanks everyone. I really just can't face it at all. I can barely think straight never mind stand my corner. The suggestion of asking for an agenda first of all is a good one and one I thought of, also details of who will be there so no surprises. It's escalated so much I think I'd have to take a solicitor in. Bottom line I think it's a crap school, yet rated the best comp in the area for results.

From past experience and other friends' experiences these meetings don't go well when you're in disagreement with the fundamentals in the first place which I'm trying to clarify but they refuse to answer written down so it will start off on the wrong foot and I see it rapidly going down hill from there which is why I want to avoid it and sort it out via the written word which I'm a bit better at (not good at meetings at all). Was hoping someone would tell me they've been in the same boat and on no account go in as it won't get you anywhere - but then you don't often get to hear what you want to hear! Thanks all. Problems of being a parent. Just had 12 years of fighting and tired of it.

You need a real kick ass person to go in with you and take over to give you a chance to take a deep breath.

Do you have someone like that, or a person in a position of authority like a vicar or a doctor who could go with you?

Think carefully about taking a solicitor, it could escalate the situation. Unless he/she is a family friend who just happens to be a vicar.

Excellent idea to ask for an agenda. That will give you time to prepare answers to their excuses...

I think I would go to the BOM and tell them that the anti-bullying procedures aren't being followed.

What's the BOM - the governors? Of course, they've got a complaints procedure so you have to go to the school first to give them a chance to resolve the situation before you can speak to the governors. MmeLindt - I'm usually that kick-ass person when it's my friends that need this kind of help, it's just not so easy when it's your own.

How old is your son? I cannot understand any school sending kids on a "school" trip without a teacher (unless it is sixth form).

A school I know has the following in its policy for school trips:
You should note the recommended ratios for supervision:
? For day visits in this country, the recommended ratio is 1 adult for every 10-15 young people. For mixed groups, there should be both male and female adults present. This applies to all our young people from Year Seven to the Sixth Form.
? In the case of Sixth Form students, there may be some leeway in particular circumstances; if you have thoughts about varying the requirements, please discuss this with X.
? For residential or foreign visits, the ratio is I adult to every 10 young people.
? Staffing ratios may be enhanced in cases where students participating on the trip have special educational or medical needs.

I think it's a good idea to exchange emails .
This is what I would want too .
Could you explain that you would prefer to try and resolve the matter this way ,that if the attempt is unsuccesful you could move on
to other methods ?
What ( apart from waffle ) are their specific objections to an email exchange ?

Reply to mummytime. His class - Year 7 (11-12 year olds) went on a school trip by two minibuses - about 15 girls in one 15 boys in the other. The teacher present from the school accompanied the boys down but the girls back. There was no teacher present for the journey back with the boys. While at the centre the teacher spent most of the time with the girls (just popping in on the boys who were doing a different activity)leaving the boys in the charge of young (my son guesses in his 20s) leisure centre staff member. While at the centre my son was jumped on by these 5 boys continously and pushed into walls etc. The staff member didn't do anything even when my son went to him for help. On the trip back they were booing him, calling him names (gay etc), throwing empty bottles at him while not strapped in. He kept his temper till the boy next to him started hitting him on the head with an empty bottle, then he turned round and punched him. The driver said or did nothing.

This and a number of other incidents make me feel he's not being cared for which I've asked for clarity on from the school.

That is neglect on the school's part. They have not fulfilled their obligation of Loco parentis.

colditz - I know. This is why they are trying to deflect it. I know what will happen - happened to a friend of a friend - she and her husband went in about bullying to their child age 4's school - there were 4 present. They'd brought in educational psychologists without any prior warning.

violetqueen - no idea why they're objecting to emails if they've nothing to hide. It shouldn't be a problem. I'm just about to email them again now insisting and if not why not.

I would suggest you contact your LEA and ask them their policy on school trips. Was the mini-bus driver a teacher? Or was it an externally hired minibus? I know in my LEA this would be in breach of LEA guidelines, and probably invalidate the insurance.
I would also suggest that you and your son start keeping a written record of all incidents. This can be used in a court of law. You could also start by talking to your local police, as this is a criminal matter.
You could also ask the leisure centre about the training their staff have and if they are all CRB checked.

It sounds to me like the school knows it was in the wrong and is trying to camouflage the fact by focusing on your son?s behaviour. Can?t imagine the local authority would approve of a coach party of Year Sevens with no teacher present!

How about asking the biggest friend you have to accompany you to the meeting? Someone physically intimidating, they don?t have to say anything?

Also, I would take in a tape recorder and ostentatiously place it on the table/desk/whatever and declare that you are going to record the proceedings so there isn?t any disagreement at a later date over what was said.

All good suggestions mattellie, thanks. That's exactly what I feel that they are camouflaging knowing they are in the wrong - thanks for the word. One to use.

All good suggestions mattellie, thanks. That's exactly what I feel that they are camouflaging knowing they are in the wrong - thanks for the word. One to use.

Thanks mummytime. I'll speak to the LEA I think and also the leisure centre staff. Good point about whether the driver was a teacher. The school didn't tell me he was yet told my son he was a new teacher and my son could have gone to him. If that's the case surely it's not unreasonable to have expected him to intervene.

Thanks for everyone's replies - it all helps.

annielouise - sorry ,didn't mean to give impression that you should know why they don't want an email exchange ,it was more a suggestion of a question for you to put to them.
I know it's not the norm , and as you know ,that's probably so that they can maximise their intimidation, and of course they won't want anything on record .
They already have the advantage ,it's on their ground ,there'll be more of them than you ,they're used to meetings ,used to "dealing " with parents etc ,etc .
And for people who think I'm paranoid - I speak from my own experience ,both as a parent and as support assistant of a child that the school really didn't want .

I think you should continue to request ,at least they could try ,a meeting could come next if it's not succesful.

If you do end up with a meeting ,if they rrefuse a tape recorder ,I've always found taking minutes a very useful device .
I prefer to do it myself - but could be a second person .
Advantage of doing it yourself is that it focusses your mind ( "let me see if I've got that right ,you're saying ... " ),kind of lets you stand back from the situation ,and slows things down so that you have time to process what's being said .
Oh ,and ask them to tell you how much time they've allowed for the meeting .
I so sympathise .

Sounds to me like the school already has legal advice not to write anythng down and with three witnesses on their side they will back each others version of events as to what is said at the meeting.

I would refuse to go to a meeting and just write a formal letter with your complaint. This entire issue needs to be documented properly. It sounds like your son was pushed beyond breaking point. You are perfectly within your rights not to attend a meeting.

If you write a letter it will force them to respond. Keep a copy of all correspondence and keep the correspondence very formal, stating facts, procedures and precise dates and times. State your complaint concisely and the action you expect. Avoid emotion.

violetqueen - you've hit in on the head - they want to maximise intimidation and not have anything on record. Then they can all back each other up - you're right BeenBeta. Thanks for your suggestions and telling me I'm not paranoid because I know exactly what they're like myself. I've kept everything by email so far, trying to keep it informal as possible but I'll do what you say BeenBeta, write a letter. I'm actually very good at the letters - keep the emotion out etc. It's when I'm in a meeting and they throw something unexpected at you that I don't cope with well and then I get upset and emotional and probably defensive. It's an unfair advantage and that's what I've pointed out to them. I'll keep you posted if I have any joy. Was hoping he could see through this term. Many thanks

Ok: quick piece of advice, if you arein the UK you can ring parent partnership and they will arrange for someone (independant someone) to come and note take and I believe advocate for you. They are a very good service. Ring them so that if the school insist you have a back up plan. they will offer the legal position advice so you know exactly where you stand to.

Its through the local council. So you will need to find your local service. good luck

All other things aside, I am at the description of the trip. I have been in teaching for 15 years and have never seen or heard of a trip run under those conditions. The staffing ratio sounds illegal for a start - why were the minibus drivers mot school teachers? Had they been CRB checked?

As a teacher, I know that requesting a meeting in cases such as yours is standard and indeed it would be extremely unusual for a school to attempt to resolve the issue via email. Honestly, I don't think this is anything to do with wanting to camouflage issues - I have never worked with a pastoral team that would dream of not getting parents in at the stage you describe.