Headteachers have voted to boycott SATS....

[deaddei]

but in RL what will that mean?
Will some schools not do them?

Oh Yesssssss!

I teach in an area where selection exams for year six are ubiquitous and essential. The poor children have to learn one type of exam and then I have to coach them on how to do well in a different type of exam - SATs really are quite unique. We waste an opportunity for making progress into the strands in lower KS3, that otherwise we would be able to cover, at exactly the time that the children are ready to forge ahead. And all because of these wretched exams.

For what its worth I have never taught in a school where exams and tests weren't given every term (that's both maintained and independent). All years have a set of QCA SAT style exams published for them - most schools use these or NFERs or previous SATs. Oh and last of all children develop at different rates ,especially in primary - things even out at about 14 - So what is the point?

As to this year mine, bless them, have already been working hard to get the hang of the phraseology and expectations of these odd exams so would probably like to take them.

Next year there is so much more we could be doing - please.

claig, KS2 SATs results are being used by some schools to assign GCSE target grades.

"the way I see the SATS are that they are a test of the Key Stage 2 syllabus and in some limited way show how much a pupil has taken in"

They are only testing the KS2 syllabus insomuch as a large part of the latter stage of KS2 syllabus is teaching for the SATs.

Thanks tethersend.

Cadders - resembles the BTEC model of assessment really. I can see that working, but not for every year group.

Why not? It's pretty much what happens in Y2.

Because to have external moderation for every year group in every school would be expensive. And would require a lot of moderators.

To be honest I don't think it would be that much more expensive than the current SATS model. You would need significantly fewer moderators than examiners and you would only need to moderate some work from each subject in each year group - not every class as that would be done internally.

The thing that really bothers me about KS2 sats is the way some schools prepare for them.

DS1 (who is an above average level 5 at the end of YR4 pupil) has been sent home with SATs revision guides / question books for homework since January.

He has now been informed that he is 'off timetable' due to sats revision (this has really cheesed off DS1 as IT and Science are his favourite subjects but he won't be doing them til after sats)

He has been told that he needs to attend a revision club after school once per week. This clashes with cricket but when DS1 said he'd prefer to attend cricket, he was told that the teacher would be 'most disappointed' if any YR6 did not attend the revision 'club'

We have had a very condescending letter sent home asking us to make sure that the children eat a good breakfast, get early nights, arrive at school on time, don't overdo it with extra-curricular activities because of sats

The list goes on, but my point is that these tests are not a true reflection of a child's ability. They are being taught to pass a test and jump through hoops and I hate it...
The children are missing out on many educational opportunities. Someone earlier mentioned the study of volcanoes due to current events, but I know that any mention of such things will be brushed aside by our off-timetable, hoop-jumping, sats cramming school in favour of sats practice papers - very wrong...

my eldest is taking his SATS next month and i've reached the conclusion that it's really only for the school's benefit and not his.
his class seem to have done nothing but endless maths papers this school year and also as he is one of the brighter boys in his class he is also being given extra tuition in a maths club as they're hoping to squeeze even higher grades out of a selected few
quite where this leaves the other less able children i really don't know
it all seems like far too much pressure at a v young age and my major concern is that children aren't able to enjoy learning like they should be able to and if anything it will and is turning my son off school

By claig Sun 18-Apr-10 13:02:28
But even the government says "that ministers do not have full confidence in teacher assessment"
and however much you increase your workload, you won't make a difference to that.

Which is obviously why the government have introduced APP - to increase Feenie's workload rather than because they believe as they state on the National Strategies website they state
nationalstrategies.standards.dcsf.gov.uk/primary/assessment/assessingpupilsprogressapp

APP is a structured approach to in-school assessment which:

enables teachers to make judgements about their pupils? attainment, keyed* into national standards

• develops and refines teachers? understanding of progression in their subject

• provides diagnostic information about the strengths and weaknesses of individual pupils and groups of pupils

• enables teachers to track pupils? progress over time

• informs curriculum planning
  facilitates the setting of meaningful curricular targets that can be shared with pupils and parents*

• promotes teaching that?s matched to pupils? needs
  supports the transfer of meaningful* information at key transitional points, e.g. from Key Stage 2 to Key Stage 3

is not a 'bolt-on' to existing arrangements. APP* is all you need.

cat64 Unfortunately teachers are not trusted as professionals (although I think doctors, etc may argue the same). This is not just by the general public and the Government but also external bodies such as exam boards etc ? hence the loss of coursework from many subjects at GCSE ? as teachers apparently can?t be trusted to make sure students don?t cheat or that we don?t write it for them! However looking at some of the KS2 results we receive from some of our feeder schools and then the ability of some of the students when they arrive ? I question it myself sometimes too. External moderation is the only answer really.

Exactly - we know children who just scrape a level aren't consistently working there, cadders, and our teacher assessment will usually say so accordingly. It does a child no favours to move to high school labelled as a level 4/5 if they are not.

cat64, I think it comes down to human nature. The only way of ensuring trust in a system is if the system is independent. We can no longer accept MPs being in charge of their own expense system, it has to be independent. We no longer allow the police to investigate complaints against them, we now have an independent police complaints commission.

When organisations and individuals are under pressure and scrutiny, there is a possibility that figures will be massaged. NHS managers have been caught doing it, under Labour's target culture pressures.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-90691/Patients-cheated-NHS-waiting-list-scandal.html

and primary schools have been caught cheating under Labour's target culture pressures.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-499958/Top-primary-schools-test-results-annulled-punishment-cheatin g.html
that is why people want independent assessment.

Clearly the schools think SATS are very important and that is why they are organising after school revision clubs, going off-timetable and cancelling teaching about volcanoes etc. They are busting a gut trying to get the pupils to get good marks, because the schools and teachers are being assessed on these marks. I can understand why many of the schools do not want this extra pressure. If they really didn't think SATS were important why don't they just carry on teaching as normal, cut down on teaching to the test and revision classes, and let fate takes its course?

I agree - the system is wrong. As a secondary teacher in a foundation subject we have the problem that we only receive limited information about a students level, just the teacher assessment and although there are not SATS for foundation subjects I believe there is still pressure to achieve the goldern Level 4 or higher (cat64 I wish we did have the chance to meet the priary school tecahers!). However this is not really the problem as you said teachers are aware of this. When it becomes a problem is when I am having to explain to a parent why their childs level has dropped or not improved. Even though teachers are well aware that teacher assessment is more accurate than overall SATS results, until schools stop being judged by SATS, and what % levels they achieve then I am not sure we have a choice but to have some external checking of progress.

By the way I do not think that Primary schools all manipulate results - just that in some cases this seems to be the case. The same pressure is there at secondary when you have to justify KS3 results - there are many teachers who also feel pressure to be a little too generous. I don't think we can take the stance that all teachers mark as they should - as most of us are aware of individuals who feel pressure to boost results. I agree Feenie it does the students absolutely no favours.

News isn't too good for New Zealand's tests either

"The Government's school qualifications chief admits that the National Certificate of Educational Achievement (NCEA) examination system is "still a work in progress" five years after its launch -- and with only four in 10 teachers supporting it. "

"The Government has admitted it botched the implementation of NCEA, five years after the controversial assessment system was introduced into secondary schools."

"Explosive' study: 63 schools may mark too high THE FIRST major analysis of schools' NCEA marking shows many teachers are awarding better grades than examiners do - with high-profile schools among the dozens suspected of marking too high. "

They don't let up because so much depends on the marks. If you get crap marks, in comparison to the previous year, you get automatic OFSTED. If your results don't come up to scratch you're in deep doo doo. Many heads then 'resign' so that the LEA can look like they are doing something to turn things around.

Don't think teachers mind being assessed. It just needs to be a fair and accurate assessment.

SATS are a complete waste of time for the Y6 pupils and its done mainly for the school/govts benefit. Its a "one size fits all" principle which simply does not work; its not a proper snapshot of how a child performs overall. I have been told the same by DS's teachers at school.

I would prefer continual assessment and I also see other children slipping through the cracks. Why is it that a third of all primary school children leave year 6 without having the required standard in either maths or english language?. I would rather see that sticky issue being properly addressed by govt.

After the Y6 SATS, learning stops and will not resume till September. The local high school to me has directly informed me that they will not take any notice of this Primary schools SATS scores and do their own testing come September.

My son has a learning difficulty (he has a Statement at school which has helped him a great deal over the past few years) and panics during test situations. What is the point exactly of giving him a SATS english paper when he (and the other children in his english set) are not fully able to read the thing to start with?. These particular children are at a disadvantage to start with.

"Why is it that a third of all primary school children leave year 6 without having the required standard in either maths or english language?"
I think that if you didn't measure this via an independent test, then you might never be aware of the seriousness of the problem. If you relied on teacher assessment, the figures might look rosier. Government needs to be aware of problems in order to tackle them effectively.

By claig Sun 18-Apr-10 15:58:27
"Why is it that a third of all primary school children leave year 6 without having the required standard in either maths or english language?"

I'm not sure where you have got these figures from but they are incorrect.

I think you mean without both English and Maths, since the figure is 20% for each, not a third.

Also, level 4 sneaked in as the 'required standard' a few years ago - before then, it was the level expected of an average child.