What do you think of primary SATs?

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Yes or No

have had children in educationi without primary SATS and with and am firmly

NO

if teachers vote to boycott the ks2 sats will all schools follow or will some schools do SATS and some schools not ? next question how does that then effect move to secondary school if the secondary school sets them on raw scores of SATS?

I think the SATs will go ahead (in some form)

It's not the teachers who are voting - the NAHT are balloting their headteachers, and the NUT are only balloting heads, deputies and assistant heads, because they are the people who must legally administer the tests.

And yes, if the boycott goes ahead, some schools will do them, some schools won't, and some will do a form of internal test. The league tables would, in that case, be a mess next year.

Secondary schools rarely set using SAT levels (they wouldn't know the raw scores, either). Those that do will have to use the teacher assessment, which is supposed to have 50% equal weighting anyway.

Polls are about 50/50 at the moment - the result of the ballot will become clear on 4th May.

I wouldn't like to second guess the likely result - but I do know that the Heads in our local cluster are determined to boycott, including my own headteacher, because they believe it's right for the children.

(they wouldn't know the raw scores, either)

MY DCVs secondary school do know the raw scores, they specifically ask for them and they are on my dc's e-school information

How strange.... primary schools only have to pass certain information on, and it's very unusual to ask for something like this.

When I used to do the setting for year 7 in a previous school I had the raw scores.

DCs school specifically rang up and asked for the information when the results came out when DS was in Year^.

We have something called e school which we can go in and see information about dcs including all their reports and attendance and targets etc. There is also a box with CAT scores (which they took july before they started) and SAT raw scores. They do set for maths, english and another group for all other subjects from the first day. I assume they use this information )CATs and SATs) for target setting.

Fischer Family Trust (FFT) I'm pretty sure uses KS2 SATs scores to determine GCSE targets, along with other data such as Y7 CATs, (sorry, what a horrible lot of jargon). Secondary schools use FFT data big time. The secondary school I work in mainly likes the KS2 SATs because of the data it gives, although I have to say we still take it with a little bit of a pinch of salt because Y6 seems to be so SATs led. CATs are more helpful. As for DS1 who will doing SATs next year if they still exist, I don't think it will be a real judge of his ability, more of a test of how how boring Y6 has been.

I think they serve a purpose, but the emphasis on them to children is all wrong. MAny years ago I was in the first year group to take them. There was no revision or anything, we were just educated (fairly well but in a very normal state primary), and one week the teacher said 'oh by the way, next week there will be some tests, don't worry about them just do your best' this is what they should be about. I hate they way that pressure seems to be put on kids for them.

My DD - was definitely set for English Maths and Science using raw scores she had gained in the KS2 SATS the secondary school she went to told us all they did this in the parents eveng we went to in the summer term before she started there a few parents asked if they meant level5 level4 etc and we were told no they used the actual raw score they did not use any teacher assessments this is why you cant blame parents for getting anxious that their child should try to do as well as possible to get into the top sets which I am sure SATS were not initially intended for but alas sadly they are now. Thankfully my daughter did well and got in top sets for everything. She got all level 5's and they must have been high raw scores he is now in Y8 and is still in all top sets . T hey are all tested regularly and are moved up and down accordingly this is why when our DS comes to do them this year we are more laid back about them as we feel that once in secondary school he will be assessed and moved up/down accordingly

The primary purpose of SATs isn't testing pupils IMO, they're really about testing teachers. Not surprising then, that teachers don't much like them.

As a parent, I do believe that they are good because then there is some proper external reference point for both the pupil and the teachers.

DD's school didn't do SATs and DS's has only just started them. I'm really pleased to see his scores (once I got to grips with this slightly odd way they have of testing them) against a yardstick to understand where he needs the extra help.

I don't mind being tested in the least, and nor would most teachers - if the test was a true picture of the child's ability, instead of a blinkered 45 minute snapshot.

As for a 'proper external reference point' - not as far as the standard of external marking is concerned. Our English marks were changed by 20% last year on appeal - that's a hell of a lot in the league tables.

Quattrocento I'm afraid you are wrong about teachers not liking SATs it's just the way they are used that teachers object to. Add that to the fact that the marking (externally) has in later years become increasingly unreliable and that the expense to schools to return papers for remarking is costly ...
Personally I don't have a problem at all with SATs I think they would be more useful at the beginning of Y6 than at the end as then they would indicate possible gaps in learning for the teacher to cover that year and that they should be internally marked and externally moderated (would save millions £)otherwise they are just another form of assessment.

I don't like them.
I do not like the "predicted" and "actual" comparisons and evryone getting into a tizzy about it.

As far as I can see this very rigid and expensive test is now there when, in days gone by, a teacher was able to write "this child is not going to do well in their exam as they are lazy" or "this child will do well, they work hard".

It is as if we have to have some massive system to show up what any teacher could have told you anyway.

They also stress the less able and bore the very bright. So there is only a few in the middle trying to close the gap between below average and average, who get anything out of them at all.

Both my two are very bright and they weren't bored Miggsie.

The NAHT are thinking of boycotting them. Apparently this won't cause a problem for secondary schools because they don't use sats for setting in the first year.

I've always thought that sats league tables are really just a house price league table!

"The NAHT are thinking of boycotting them. Apparently this won't cause a problem for secondary schools because they don't use sats for setting in the first year."

Yes, that has been discussed, Builde!

I like the end of year SATS based assessments as they give me a clear guide to how well my dc's are doing in each subject. However, my yr6 dd has done nothing but SATs practice this year and was told in September that they wouldn't be learning anything new this year. Not impressed with that.

Well I've said it before, and cue the Hovis ads cos I'm really old, but I honestly think that a good five minute assessment by a competent teacher can tell you far more about any child than a SATs mark. Some schools practise even the 'optional' SATs. My Year 6 DC has been doing papers since Christmas - I have no doubt that she and her classmates will do fine - in SATS terms. Other schools place less emphasis on them. Lower down the school the age of the child can make a huge difference (not always, but often!). One only has to look at SATs threads on here to see the anxiety/bragging/anger they provoke.

But thats a MNet thing, not real life Bellissima. I don't know anyone in RL who gets in a tis about SATS. Having had two through KS2 SATs, none of the parents discussed them at my dc's school or any other parents at differents schools I know in the area.

I agree bruffin they usually pass without a comment from parents here.

Okay - accepted that there seems more angst and boasting (and maybe the latter provokes the former!) on MN than in RL. We are told by the school not to discuss marks with each other, which I agree with (maybe some people just have to rush back to their computer and log them!). But I have noticed a real difference between the generally laid back parents in DC1's now Yr 6 class, and those in DC2's Year 2 class - suspect a significant number of the children in the latter are being drilled in KS1 stuff even as I write this, so there are certainly some folk 'in a tis' out there. (Having said that it just seems to be a monstrously competitive class .) No, what I suppose I object to more is the fact that my Yr 6 DC seems to spending far more time practising for SATs than actually 'larnin summat new' as we would say oop north.

SATs

I was interviewed on the phone by Irena Barker for that article, but she didn't put me in it.

It's OK the Conservatives have promised to overhaul the Key Stage 2 tests and make exams more robust and rigorous by giving universities and subject academics more power over examinations."