Anyone else agree that if we get rid of league tables the precious children may actually take responsibility for their own work and not rely on panicing teachers and parents....

[stillenacht]

Because thats what i think

Am sick of kids knowing that teachers are under so much pressure to get grades that we will bend over backwards time and again to ensure it happens by extending deadlines, extra coursework help in holidays (I have done some in half term and will doubtlessly go in over Easter).

My teachers never did this for me - (In the 80s - first year of GCSE)

We never got to repeat modules and know our exact grades....

Gah - rant over!

You're a teacher? With that appalling attitude and inability to write a coherent thread title? Heaven help us!
My son is 15 he is re-taking a module because his TEACHER told him to. Do you really think he's remotely bothered by league tables or why these options exist and whether they did ten or 20 years ago?
No. He goes to class and does what his teachers ask him to. He got a C on his recent science module and was disappointed in himself so his teacher (clearly a much more caring individual than some) gave him a form to bring to me to pay for him to resit it. The why's and wherefores are not for myself or my son to debate, it is an easier ride than we got, but his final grade will still depend on his knowledge of the subject so it's not a huge advantage.
Teaching is a vocation, not a 9-3 job and I'm sure you were told that when you signed up.
The children have no choice in being there OR who the elected government and thus education minister is.
You as an adult do.

Yeeeess - and I teach a boy in year 11 who after 16 hours of time to complete his science coursework has handed me one side of A4. One side. I have graded it F. He is targeted a C. So I have had to sit with him for a further three hours after school, when God knows I have other things to do, and stop him playing computer games , and looking for prom suits , to get his mark up. 19 hours. Grrr. I suspect that is more the kind of thing the OP is talking about.

But I did get extra holiday sessions when I was doing my A levels, back in 1989...

I am a teacher. A knackered one.

I am also a mum.

I have been a teacher for 15 years and over that time I have seen the roles and responsibilities shift so that the kids have the balance of power (blardy blar its not all about power in education...blah blah...) They do know that the adults in the room are under immense pressure to get them to achieve their grades. I have taught over 15,000 children in my time and have seen the joys of children who have put all their efforts in and achieved grades at whatever level way above their level of expectation. To them I offer heartfelt congratulations - I have also seen (and this is an increasing trend) pupils who know that GCSE grades are all important to Headds and league tables and consequently that their teachers will bend over backwards to almost breaking point for some to help them achieve their 'target' grades.

Education stats are a dangerous game.

apologies for poor grammar and spelling.

Was at school after contracted hours (am part time) working with GCSE pupils trying to get coursework out of them.

So, let me get this right, the only reason you currently "help" out these kids is to help keep the stats up. So if there were no league tables you wouldn't have to bother with the ones you deem to be ungrateful and not worth your time?

Are you for real?

For the first time I find myself totally in favour of league tables if that is all that motivates teachers like you.

No - its not that I wouldn't help kids - of course I would.That is my job. i love teaching - helping and guiding my pupils. If you were in a classroom you would see how so many children leave their coursework until literally the last minute (despite phone calls and emails home etc) and instead of us saying 'Ok you have missed the deadline so you will have a '0' for that part of the course' (despite all proper procedures followed and Units of Work covering the topics concerned)- we now say 'ok we will sit with you and literally sit over you until you have finished it'. That didn't happen years ago.

Prob is when you have 30 plus kids you have to sit over.

League tables don't motivate me at all.

The kids motivate me.

League tables motivate the government and by dint of that the management.

TheFallenMadonna - that is exactly what I am talking about!

Yes but when my DD constantly missed her coursework deadlines it was because SHE couldn't be bothered to do it not because she thought a teacher would sort it out for her. I would have been quite happy for her to get a zero for that particular piece of work (after many hours of nagging and punishments at home) but her school had other ideas

It is a time of immense pressure for teachers and at such times it can seem that we care more about results than they do.

I need to be able to explain every single underachievement to my line manager and ultimately the head.

We have no choice. Twinset is right. Our individual results are analysed, our department's and our school's. There is scrutiny at every level, and the pressure os quite dreadful. And actually, even leaving that aside, I am reluctant to allow a child to get an F in Science when they could, and should be getting a C. And thereby jeopardise their chances of getting into college or sixth form, simply because they can't be bothered to put in the effort during lesson time.

Same here. All based on statistics not linked to my subject (the wonderful family of fischers!)

Not only do I have to explain results at the end of the year but also results of all my exam classes in half termly assessments. I do feel sometimes as if I do little more than mark exams and then justify my existence.

For me that means approximatley every 6-7 weeks I have to mark 250 exam questions or papers, explain every single underachievement and have an action plan.

Yes indeed. No chance of using any professional judgement to set targets any more. Oh no.

Indeed ladies

It get to you doesn't it

Yep - us too with the half-termly assessments. And we can't even test at the end of the half term, which might make sense, because we need to mark and enter the results by the end of the half term. So we have to finish a topic with four or so lessons left. But continuity of teaching comes second to the overarching demands of the assessment and monitoring programme...

yes...

assess, assess, assess...

errr excuse me, when do we teach anything?

It does and I hate it when it does as I really do enjoy my job. I suppose everyone has times when they feel tired whatever their job. I have accepted that tonight school work will have to wait as dp has some work on so I have had to help dd with her homework, do the tea bedtime routine.

I do have an essay to do tonight though and I just cannot focus. the huge pile of exam papers on my desk is putting me off.

We are on the same system TFM, I only see some of my classes once a week. I think it is working but at huge cost to myself.

So what would you change or do differently ?

I wouldn't to be honest it is working for us. But as I said the cost to the teacher's sanity in a literacy based subject can be immense.

But hey ho holidays must be around the corner.

oooooo..where do I start.

Scrap league tables based on value added and 'equivalent GCSE' grades.(for BTECs and other options)

Less coursework - more controlled conditions (and proper controlled conditions - not those where they can take notes in with them )

Exam boards take on more responsibility for marking (external examiners attending centres).

Teachers having time to teach and not continually assessing every jot (or lack of) that puils make in a book/on a computer.

Get rid of fictitious targets for all subjects based on NVR and VR abilities.

No more modular exams

Only one resit allowed per subject(thats me being generous)

So probably being naive here but my teacher friend tells me I should be looking at value add as a key indication as to whether the school is any good or not rather than the GCSE results, is that not the case in your opinion ?

I feel for teachers with all this bullshit...and yet, I can see that there were schools prior to the introduction of SATs, league tables etc who didn't give a shit. Hello teachers of Litchick RC High!!! Do you hear me?
At least these figures expose them. Maybe the state will even do something about them?

But there has to be balance. At the moment teachers barely seem free to teach.