Anyone else agree that if we get rid of league tables the precious children may actually take responsibility for their own work and not rely on panicing teachers and parents....

[stillenacht]

Because thats what i think

Am sick of kids knowing that teachers are under so much pressure to get grades that we will bend over backwards time and again to ensure it happens by extending deadlines, extra coursework help in holidays (I have done some in half term and will doubtlessly go in over Easter).

My teachers never did this for me - (In the 80s - first year of GCSE)

We never got to repeat modules and know our exact grades....

Gah - rant over!

It is another indicator. However I once taught in a school that even a hairy socialist like me would have reservations about but it had great value added. In part because the primary schools were so crap it was not hard for us to add value.

its just that school employ people to 'sort out' the figures - value added included.

Its all such a bloody game and the kids are the ones who lose out while everyone is running about trying to hit 'targets' - tick box culture in the extreme. Everything learnt at its base level just to tick the box. No room for growth outside of the system. Sad (and tired)

I do have time to teach and tbh I do almost half termly assessments anyway. The difference is that it is dictated from above when I have to do them rather than me slotting them in where they fit. I also can't do a brief assessment or a peer assessmet. I have always found teaching exam classes draining, I have more exam classes this year than I ever have before which is why I am feeling it more than before.

I fully understand you are tired stillenacht, I have snapped at my dp tonight as I cannot remember the last time I did a working day of less than 15 hours. But we do more than teach at base level, I am sure you do too.

Of course, but timetabling (I teacha foundation subject not a core)workshops, practical exams,uni visits, sport, G and T stuff etc etc means we miss so many kids so much of the time (school does soooo much for the pupils!) sometimes I may only see pupils 2/3 times per half term. Then assessments and targets etc etc...wish there was more time to engage in things and cover subjects in depth rather than quite tokenistically.

I totally get you, I have the same as I only see most of my GCSE exam classes once a week. All of the above hits me as well. I am lucky I guess that I have other exam classes that I see more often and a fabulous top set who are all sponges.

There is dreadful pressure on teachers these days, I agree. But I'm not sure that kids are assuming teachers will sort coursework out for them - I think they're just being normal teenage lazy lumps and I think there were always kids like that even back in the dark ages.

you teachers deserve to be sainted btw.

Thanks snorkie .In the dark ages though they were allowed to 'fail' if they were lazy(does that even exist anymore?) but nowadays we chase after them and prod them step by step through it all as we have to meet our targets. Hence everyone getting better and better grades every year...when is it going to end???

yes agree. In the dark ages they got their cumuppence & probably didn't care two hoots. Now it's the teachers that get the fallout if the fail (except of course they don't fail, they just continue 'working towards' their targets).

Presumably in the top set in schools it is more about teaching (inc outside the curriculum) that about assessement. Or is that just naïve.

If yo are assessing all the time what the hell are you assessing

indeed zanzibar re the assessing (new OFSTED criteria means we have to be assessing during lesson time whilst teaching too....)

I teach in an academically selective school as well.

stillenacht, I'm not a teacher but I agree with what you are saying. It is unfair on teachers to be put under this pressure. If children haven't learnt self motivation whilst at school, they are also going to find life tough when they go to college or university, or start their first job and they haven't got someone pushing them to achieve.

Thats what I think boiledeggandsoldiers. I am not criticising anyones children - my eldest son is lazy - I just hope he has teachers bending over backwards after him as I am doing with my pupils.What a sad system.

The only experience I have had of league tables and targets so far is teachers and headteachers telling dcs' classes quite untruthfully that the Yr 6 SATS are ever such important exams that will determine their futures (the children's, not the headteachers'). I told my children the truth, that this is all about the school, not the child, but some of their friends were seriously distressed. Because my dd is bright, the school insisted on her doing the SATS though she was ill in bed with subluxated joints and suspected glandular fever: she could not sit up or hold a pen, but a TA came round to our house and took her exam down to dictation. Bending backwards, yes, but I don't exctly see it as bending backwards for dd's benefit.

I totally agree cory. I think there is a lot of this going on and its all down to the pressures of attaining targets. Not at all in any way for the benefit of the children. It is not the teachers' fault though - they are only told we have to get this amount of level 4's or GCSEs grade C and above or GCSEs grades A and A*.....its fine but you can lead a horse to water, what if it really really really refuses to drink.

dd in yr 8 had a project to do in January- they were given 6 weeks.
We still haven't had it marked because some girls didn't hand it in till nearly a month after the due date.
Why didn't the teachers just say to these girls - ok you get a zero, because you couldn't be arsed?

With a year 8 project that is exactly what I would have done but you just can't do that with GCSE or A level coursework...you have to give them opportunities time and again

Makes me sick.
Hardly prepares them for real life.
I would put these girls in a separate room and give them basket weaving to do till they're 16.
(yes I know it's unreasonable, but these madams have disrupted the entire teaching group all year?

I work in Early Years so our pressures are different but I can see all this going on with my children's teachers, especially DS in Y6. The teachers are coming in extra early and staying late unpaid to give 'booster classes' to those on those on the cusp of a level.

As a parent I have gained the impression (although not told directly) that if I help push DS to Level 5 results it will improve his secondary education as the teachers there will need to work harder with him to add value.

Just another vote for teachers to be sainted.
How you do it ,I don't know !
Have been thinking myself - following AS resits ,A2 module early " sits " ,mocks ,curriculum enrichment day ....
when on earth does the curriculum get taught ?
After school, Sats and holidays - poor teachers and actually ,poor kids .
My son ,keeps his head down ,quiet but lazy and in need of direction would ,I think ,have been picked up if the teachers weren't all so busy with targets ,assessments ,chasing those kids that they can see are really behind .

I could not do what you all do. I would love to work with kids and young people and help them learn but it is so not worth it. Teachers would be able to do so much more for kids if they were able to actually teach them, actually punish the little bastards who ruin it for everyone else and actually get to know the kids. Instead they're screwed over by a system of numbers and that allows kids to run riot with no fear of trouble for their 'crimes'

Another vote for sainting teachers!

We are hardly saints there are far more positives to the job. when I think of what my sister does as a nurse or a friend as a surgeon I feel quite insignificant.

i kind of aggree with the op.
I am always amazed at how many deadlines my ds get over a bit of work, I don't belive it really does him any favours as it isn't really teaching him to work under pressure iynwim

Agree having several 'deadlines' doesn't do anybody any favours. Some students just ignore the first ones, considering that they are not the 'real' deadlines.

Regarding the op, I would love for children to be able to take responsibility for their own work.