what would you choose state or private education for secondary school

[busymummy3]

ds is a very bright child on g and t register has achieved level5a in literacy and level5b + for maths and science in optional sats when in y5. now in y6 teacher see no reason why should not achieve very highly in actual sats. we have opted for a very successful state secondary school as our first choice but just started to wonder (as you do )whether should have looked into scholarships or bursaries for private school? one parent has done this in class child is same as my ds that is what has set me thinking

Ds has the same levels as your ds, he's doing year 9 maths at the moment, he aced his entrance exam but we were not offered a scholarship or a bursary, he did sit the exam a little late though so I'm not sure if they have any left. You can but try, don't rely on getting assistance though, have a back up plan just incase.

If your DS is going to a "very successful state secondary" he should do fine if the school can offer a full academic curriculum with well qualified teachers. Independent schools are very expensive and you have probably now missed the entrance exams for them anyway. Continue to encourage your DS and enjoy the money you will save.

You might have to get a wriggle on to sit for scholarships - they are usually held about now. You would probably need to investigate each school for the conditions were for bursaries - i.e. specific job (forces).

A few other considerations would be how competitive it is to get in and whether, if testing on ability, whether the nat curric has covered all aspects of the maths that school will test for.

But also check out each school on it's own merits. In many parts of the country I would have no compunction about using private ed, but in the county we're in we're best saving our money.

Scholarships with any signifcant value are rare - most are 10-20% of fees - could you afford the other 80-90%?

Bursaries - yes, I would try IIWY, but it's hard - until your child has been through entrance procedures and the school know they want them they won't really look at it - so you are inevitably involving the child in the process.

TBH it may be too late - awards may have already been made - but it might be worth a conversation with the admissions people (sometimes known as registrars) at one or two likely schools?

Otherwise - don't stress - bright children do extremely well in good state schools and even if money were taken out of the equation you might very well have already made the right choice for your DS.

I would stick with the very successful state school myself.

are waiting to hear if we have our first choice yet - like a lot of areas our letters are due out on march 1st

Dh is teacher in private sector and both of our children are in a grammar school and have never been privately educated. Eldest just did exceptionally at GCSE.
It depends on your child's personality...what the school can offer but ultimately, we believe that any child who can achieve will achieve anywhere with the right home support and guidance.
Private schools can often offer many more extra curricular activities and facilities may be superior. Achievement too can be higher with lower ability children due to intensity of teaching and lower class numbers..
If money will not be an issue, look at all options with your child and choose accordingly.
Both of mine were level 6 on leaving year 6 and that is where your son will be too though neither of them were ever classed as G&T!! Just awkward!!!!

I strongly suspect that by the time letters come out you will not have any scholarship/bursary options left for this year, as the private schools operate to similar timetables on offering places (I know our decisions will have to be made by then, anyway).

Entrance procedures for Year 7 usually take place in January of Year 6, so the OP has plenty of time.

Not wanting to take anything away from the OP's DS's achievement, but Level 5 in Year 5 is not that unusual. What is really important is Verbal and Non-Verbal Reasoning. I would recommend that you get some practice papers for your DS to see how he gets on with them. If you do pursue the independent route, he will almost certainly have to sit these papers. While you can't revise for them, it is good to be familiar.

My DD1 was top level SATS early on in Year 5 and she went on to get an academic scholarship. My only regret with her was that I didn't move her for Year 6 because her primary school did nothing with her in that year since she was already a dead cert for good SATS.

There is nothing to lose by contacting the registrar of possible school and arranging a tour and discussion with the head. Don't be afraid to ask about how their bursaries work - they are there to be used. They won't advertise them, as this could possibly upset full-feepaying parents. You have to be proactive.

It's mostly been done and dusted in my area.
I's give the schools a ring on Monday if I were you, or mail today.

If the places are all gone, there's no need to give it any more thought

MmeB - the OP's ds is already in Y6 so has missed the boat for private secondary - and certainly wouldn't be in the running for scholarship or bursary even if there were places left

However, plenty of schools either have their main or a substantial new intake in Y9 and would sometimes have scholarships/bursaries at that point, so you could see how he gets on at the state secondary and reassess at the beginning of y8

If he's very bright and the school is very successful and his cohort is bright he'll be fine

You could go with state but try 12+ or 13+ as certainly round here 11+ registration was well before Christmas, exams sat in January and offers made this week.

Pretty well done over here. Year 9 is a good plan.

The main thing I have noticed is that our private schools offer a more academically-oriented GCSE selection route. No business studies/resistant materials, etc. Though you can obviously do art and music. More subjects are IGCSE. It's just more rigorous than the local comprehensive, which is known for massaging its GCSE figures by encouraging large numbers of soft subjects. (Disclaimer: this is just our local school, sure other comprehensives don't do this.)

If you have a bright child you may well like them to have the option of studying Latin, say, for GCSE, or of taking IGCSE Maths and French.

MmeBlueberry - a little misleading to say the OP has plenty of time; if her local private schools are anything like the one DH teaches at, the entrance exams were in January so she will have missed them.

As others are saying, why not see how he gets on at the state school and consider 13+ entrance if you aren't happy with how he's doing.

You need to check whether later entries can still do extra modern languages and Latin . We're finding in some schools that where these have been introduced at a basic level in years 7 and 8, those entering at 13+ cannot always then opt for them at Year 9 without any previous experience.

People worry about comprehensives offering lots of soft subject but around us I don't know of any bright children who have been allowed to give up three sciences, modern languages etc. And, they are then all expected to take academic A-levels.

Comprehensives love their bright children to do as well as possible. I think this 'soft subject' worry is media propaganda.

As someone who did very well in a comp. (along with many of my contemps. ) I wouldn't waste thousands of pounds on school fees.

There is good and bad teaching in both systems, but comprehensives are very ambitious for their bright children.

All this soft subject talk got me worrying too. I had a look at ds's school's website (it's a comprehensive) and in fact there are no 'soft' subjects on offer. None. You can do Dance and Music but as twilight subjects. As for Media Studies and the ilk... nothing.

Regarding paying for private school, I would pay (if I could!) for a very good one, but only if it was very good. I certainly wouldn't chuck my money away if the alternative was a very good comprehensive.

Sorry, with my careless speedreading, I didn't catch that the child was already in Y6

I agree that the normal assessment season is coming to an end. However, this is only important for schools that fill all their places. If the school is undersubscribed, you can apply any time. If they want your son, they will make him an offer and may be able to offer some financial assistance too.

I wouldn't get too hung up on whether its a scholarship or bursary. Scholarships are more public, whereas bursaries are confidential. There may be a fixed number of scholarships offered, whereas the situation with bursaries is more clandestine, unless the school has a huge endowment.

The only way you will know is to ask.

As for 13+ entry, these are usually for pupils coming from prep schools and taking the Common Entrance. The school may have its own alternative to CE. The syllabus is virtually the same as KS3, if taking French at lower level. Latin is optional. The exams are usually taken in prep schools, the week after summer half-term in Year 8. This is preceeded by a a VR/NVR test in late Year 6/early Year 7, which is where the real selection takes place - CE is a formality, tbh.

By their very nature, independent schools set their own admissions procedures. There are no hard and fast rules, and most schools can be flexible and try to accommodate your individual needs. What you need to do is to ask the school.

Builde, you are right that no one gives up three sciences. It is compulsory to study Biology, Chemistry and Physics. About half of GCSE students study for a single GCSE covering all three sciences, which is pretty worrying. This doesn't include those who go the Applied and other alternative routes.

As for MFL - the national stats are pretty poor. Only about 40% take a single MFL to GCSE, iirc.

Ds was 2 weeks late sitting the entrance exam, there were no bursaries left and we were not offered a scholarship, probably because there were none left aswell. He's an incredibly bright boy, the school is in the top 100 so it's very difficult to get in. (fluffy wonders how much kindeys sell on eBay) I can cover the fees but they are increasing them in September and have not said by how much, which is worrying as I don't know if I can cover them if they raise them too much.

thank you everyone for your comments and advice to be honest we looked at a number of state comps then made our top 3 preferences of which We are all happy with. the private route never entered my head I just wonder sometimes why other parents who have bright kids like us go down the private route?(other than obviously I apprecate that some will not be as lucky as we are to have a choice of decent state comps)like a number of you have said why pay thousands of pound that we cant afford when the alternative is a very comprehensive.and i love Buildes comment that comps love their bright children and want them to do as well as they can that is certainly the impression I get as well.

Independent schools are not just a more genteel version of state schools, though. It is not just a matter of money. The culture is different.

If you don't value what independent schools have to offer, then you should definitely save your money.

In what way is the culture different ?

i went to state school, as did everyone in my family. My DH went to private boarding school, as did everyone in his family. Of his three brothers, only DH went on to University, and one brother left school at 16 to go into the family farming business, yet DH's parents say that they are still pleased they sent them all to the private school, as they all did better than they would have done at the local comprehensive. Their view is that the smaller classes and greater discipline etc brought out the best in their sons. Plus, if you are paying thousands of pounds for you children to be privately educated, that carries some weight if you want to complain when they are NOT getting the results they are capable of achieving! My experience of meeting others who'd been to private school was that they tend to have more confidence in their own abilities and are not scared to blow their own trumpets! My DH absolutely loved his school and looks back on it with real fondness, especially in terms of all the sport etc that he participated in. However, as someone else said above, unless the private schools in the area are superb, i would stick with the good comps rather than paying lots of the money for a middle of the road independent school.

Much more holistic, I would say. It's not just a case of shuffling from one disconnected lesson to another. Of course, you may not value that, so don't really connect with the notion - which is absolutely fine.