Education and social mobility - John Humphrys is coming on for a discussion, Fri 29 Jan, at 11.30am

[GeraldineMumsnet]

John Humphrys is filming a documentary about education for BBC2. He is embarking on a journey around Britain to meet parents, teachers and students.

His task is to examine the relationship between education and social mobility - why is it that education cannot close the attainment gap that exists between children from the poorest and wealthiest backgrounds?

Government education advisor David Woods has accused parents of being prejudiced against their local state secondary schools. Dr Anthony Seldon, Master of Wellington College, calls the current independent sector an apartheid system. Professor Stephen Ball, from the Institute of Education, concludes that grammar schools, parental choice and faith schools have all been responses to middle-class concerns.

John is coming to Mumsnet this Friday (29 Jan) at 11.30am to hear your experiences. Are you benefiting from parental choice in education? Is it at the expense of others? Does the current system put too much responsibility on parents to make the right choices? Is it too stressful? Do you feel you have to top-up your children's education eg home-tutoring, learning an instrument, employing a lawyer? Are they worthwhile investments, or necessities that cause resentment?

Please post your thoughts here. Thanks in advance.

I really think that schools should have decent careers advice service

So many young teenagers just have NO IDEA about what jobs are even available 'out there'

It's hard to have aspirations when you've got no knowledge of the outside world

Proper careers advisors who could mentor teenagers and show them possible pathways to different outcomes... would be brilliant, I think... even to the extend of saying 'who do you know? who could you ask for careers advice or work experience?'

Most teens don't even know what jobs their immediate family members do, in my experience

I am always grabbing young teenagers and giving them serious CAREER TALKS and making them venn diagrams...

I think we focus too much on the ages of 6-14 because really it's what happens before and after that that i think are more crucial...

redistributing wealth - my spelling and grammer since I have had children.

My point exactly nic60. SATs need to either be scrapped, or marked purely on coursework over the school year. And they need to be marked by people with at least an ounce of common sense.

Thanks for coming

orm

Do you have a Bridgy-mention alarm perchance?

I disagree on the focus issue morningpaper. If you lose them in the education system early its much harder / costly to do it later.

Agree with Otter re there being fewer terrible teachers (some of the women who taught at the highly rated girls' school I attended were absolutely not fit for purpose) but I think often schools can develop a culture of allowing certain attitudes towards learning/attainment/social mobility to become prevalent, so that even teachers who think that child X is good enough to apply to a top University get drowned out by those who feel "it's not for us".

I am proud that MN made the great John Humhries crash the pips by one minute 16 seconds. Result!

Peachy I bet your friends were following in their parents' footsteps and that they and their parents didn't realise that the world would change in the way it did. Had it not changed, their decision to leave school and go straight to work would have been a perfectly OK one, financially at least.

regarding the theme of the conversation - social mobility - I wonder how useful this constituency really is, most if not all here care deeply about what kind of education their children
no one here is really socially excluded and lacking in aspiration

oldenglishspangles: I suppose I think that schemes like surestart are really crucial ...

MP agree.

DS1has a career aim,one he can achieve I think (and helpfully vaguely allied to Dh'sarea foraccesibility).Given he has SN thats a great start.

So did his TA know what he wants to aim at?Nope. Some kids did but labelled it 'gay' (he wants to do satge and theatrical makeup).

Hardly inspiring.

Oh and Orm- E was a good school when we were there,trying to get a palce in similar for ds4 now.

'their children get' that should read

Otter absolutely,totally agree. What was lacking was I think an ability to see outside the immediate possibilities. And there were low expaectations- job at 16, pg by 18,maybe married soon after,Seriosuly,I wasthe last of my mates tomeet my DH and I really thought I was on the shefl. I was 24. I didn'teven question that until I joined MN in fact,crap job /married / babies was all anyone looked at.

sfxmum that may be true, but I think many of us come from that background so if you comapred that to other constituencies thinga may wellemerge IYSWIM.

Thank you, from me also. Gosh, can't wait to tell someone. I feel very important and cerebral, suddenly. .

Skegness - do you think one's mother being a little star struck by a R4 presenter is a predictor of academic success? I am almost as excited as I was when Chris Packham talked to me. Although he isn't on R4, granted...

MP I in two minds about sure start. I can remember having a 'poor' mindset. What has made the most difference to me is actually interacting with people who were 'like' me and got 'out'. I dont mean just those that have the biggest salaries either. The Authority including the police, teachers, etc knew you were scum / charity cases and to be fear etc and therefore much of what they tried to do was dismissed.

Can i just point out to whoever it was that said state schools have music and games. Yes I am sure alot do and alot do very very well, but round here they don't and that is the point - sporadic supply of a consistent approach countrywide creates divide and a multi-tiered system.

And thank you Mr. H, looking forward to the programme.

V interesting discussion - will read in full when I have time. I'm sort of a product of the social mobility of grammar schools in that my dad went to grammar, did well, first in family to go to Uni and so on. Education was incredibly important to him, his absolute passion, and he maintained links with both his school and his Uni throughout his life. What's interesting for me to ponder now is - is my educational success down to the school my parents chose for me, or was it more to do with the fact that my dad was just really keen on education per se? Would I be where I am now if I had attended a different school?

And rofl at everyone correcting their grammar and spelling for JH - don't think anyone bothered for the policiticans.

peachy - I have friends who took similar life paths but were fortunate in that they weren't dependant on a single factory. We're all in our late 30s now - and guess who are the ones with whopping great big houses and teeeeeeeny mortgages, and who has the teeeeeeeny house and the whopping great big mortgage? Still, you win some you lose some

Skegness, I am amused by your comment. My daughter was quite rebellious as a youngster and I was amazed when she became a regular listener to Radio 4. Could the important thing be that it is a radio which is on in the background and not the television?

I do Otter, I do. I am very confident that the little Otters (and the little Skegnesses, on that measure!) will do very well.

oldenglish: I think that my local surestart actually helps by having people who have 'got out' as it were there - on the staff, giving talks, giving advice. Loads of health and social care staff, which I think is brilliant. I know what you mean... but ss seems like such a good start.

I think that SATs are useful but should be re-instated to their original purpose. They were supposed to be the measure of a school, not a child.
They should continue with the exam but only give the whole-school result, especially the value-added and not just the raw scores.
The parents and kids wouldn't get so agitated if they never knew their individual result. Also imagine the knock-on to the teacher when they had to persuade the kids to do their best for love of teacher/subject/school instead of for self-interest.