Winchester schools - state & private, help relocation with little notice

[cranbury]

DH has a new position within his company so we need to move from a London suburb to the area around winchester. We don't need to commute by train, would prefer to live in the country but worried about schools - meant to be good but we havent got a clue. Got the good schools guide - so read about Pilgrims, Twyford and St Swithuns but understand the state schools are good too. We have a boy and a girl. Any advice would be good on primary but also secondary schools that are good to go onto.

Annner- can I be really nosy and ask why you teach in the private sector when you so clearly appreciate and value the state sector and indeed choose it for your children? I'm very curious! I've met quite a few teachers who do the exact opposite- ie teach in the state sector while sending their children to private schools- but none, afaik, in your position. Feel free to tell me to mind my own business but I'd love to hear more if you were willing.

Brilliant post Anner and thanks for filling me in on the present location of the fireworks display. I get to see the ice rink in all its glory (though not the fair) as I always spend Christmas in Winchester. Try to get to the carol service once. It is so magical.

I do hear you all - but I myself have been to a so called outstanding state catholic education (IMO not a very good education due to 2 very disruptive pupils in my year, one of which luckily got expelled), a small private school and one of the top indie schools - after experiencing myself i would say the difference is huge, but this was all in London. DH educated in commuterbelt went to again a good state primary and secondary and yes he got lots of academic results but didn't feel like he got an education - it was just an exam machine, albeit a very successful one.

I too have met loads of state teachers who send their kids privately and none the other way round.

Cranbury, I can understand your views on state schools given your own and your husband's experiences, but I do just want to come to the defence of Winchester schools (even though you've not been critical of them). Winchester is an odd place in a lot of ways. One of the ways to understand that is to just look at some of the online estate agents' pages and see what prices properties here reach. In terms of square footage, the house prices are ridiculously high in many areas both within the city and in some villages outside.

What that means is that many people find they can't afford to buy properties (or even rent) in this area, unless through the local authority affordable-houses scheme. What that also means is that those parents who can afford to buy here are generally (but not all) those who have aspirations for their children's education. And what that means is their voices are amongst those of all local parents who have aspirations for their children's education.

There are a couple of primary schools who have catchment areas that might include several supported families but, not only do they also get good results, if you're relocating from London, your budget would mean that you wouldn't be looking in those areas anyway unless you're looking to downsize.

Primary schools in the city and the surrounding villages feed into the comprehensives, which feed into Peter Symonds (which has a huge catchment area). For the end result of state education here, it's worth finding the statistics for Peter Symonds. From memory, there are a number of PSC pupils who have gone through state education to Oxbridge.

Winchester house prices might make it look like a snobby, middle-class area, but ever since the build-up of council estates in the decades following the last war (yes, I almost go back that far!) there has always been a mix of private-house-owners-who-couldn't-care-less and council-house-renters-with-aspirations-for-their-childrens'-education. Just as it was back then, so it still is now. Well-rounded education is pretty much what Winchester has been doing for very many decades, and still is.

Spend a little time down here, and look at the state schools.

Actually, I wonder if I could do a quick survey of mums at the local primary school (a way up the road) or the local secondary school (slightly less up the road but just round the corner) and see how many of them wear Boden. (That's me being a bit sarcastic, by the way.)

Thanks Ampere for the info

It is an interesting area and I know we will investigate it more. I just wish I could wave a magic wand and find perfect house and perfect school (close enough anyway) and not have to make any decisions - how lazy am i!!

This year over 50 students from PSC got into Oxbridge, 2 of whom I know and live in smallish terrace houses in Winchester. One was a member of the PSC team that won the Bank of England prize last year. What makes this remarkable is that PSC does not select, and is open to all abilities.

uglymugly, Boden is very much the rage here , styled with Primark and Sainsbury's fashion.

Just to confirm in Cranbury's eyes what a dump Winchester is, full of deluded no-hopers believing a state education is adequate, a Primark is opening up in the Brooks Centre soon. Yay! Why there is a Jack Wills on the High Street, I can't imagine. Surely state school children don't shop there? Whatever next.

Agree on shops - new yummy mummy enclave at top of high st - Joules, Jack Wills, Cath Kidston etc. However, my very cool previously privately educatad, now PSC, babysitter shops at charity shops, New Look etc and is very excited about Primark opening. Read in to that what you will...By the way, there are lots of teachers at the private schools here who use state education at all levels.

In response to Anner, on the Peter Symmonds does better than Winchester, Peter Symmonds is full of ex Winchester, Swithuns pupils.

Which speaks volumes for its reputation...

Sorry chaps; didn't get back on last night.

Uglymugly, Peaceflower: you are both spot on. As indeed, is Lucysmum on the shops! (preens new CK handbag...)

Of course, PS has a much larger intake than Win Coll or Swithuns, but that they get comparable numbers in reflects their academically rigorous while inclusive atmosphere and the welcome trend away from the old public schools' students routinely being able to exploit historic links to the OB colleges. Quite a few of the leavers who would routinely have gone on to get undeserved Oxbridge places and "gentlemen's degrees" now don't even try and aim for the States instead.

Some children do move from the inde sector to PS because their parents think that it will increase their chances of getting into Oxbridge. Of course, admissions tutors take no interest at all in where they did their GCSEs/IGCSEs... Others are less cynical, but feel ready for a change, decide that boarding isn't for them any more, or want to do subjects outside our offer.

I don't really want to out myself - but in Hampshire teaching in an inde school is the only way that you can teach both ends of the secondary school age range. All of our schools are 11-16, restricting you to KS3 and KS4, and for my subject, permanent positions in VIth form colleges are few and far between. And I love teaching in KS3 AND VIth form.

It's also just where I happened to get a job from the applications that I put in when I qualified! I enjoy having the opportunity to present what is often an alternative world view to my students. When they, in all probability, are going to be the lawyers, doctors and bankers of the future, it's no bad thing for them to be taught by a few women of child-bearing age who combine families and work and who don't regard state schools as being "prole holes" (quote from more than one ex-prep school pupil who I have taught)

That's not to say that I don't struggle at times to reconcile my position with my principles. But I am not alone among my colleagues, and I estimate that around half of us send our children to state schools, with the proportion being higher in primary than in secondary. Those of us who were state educated tend to be rather more comfortable with this than those who were not.

Interesting comments re teaching to A level -I've often wondered (even though all the winchester secondaries get fab results) whether the teachers are fulfilled only teaching to GCSE and/or whether the really academic, intellectual teachers (who I admit are not always the best) would prefer to teach in another county/at PSC/at private school with 6th form. A friend who taught at PSC found it very hard teaching only A level but to so many different groups rather than to one or two classes of children across each year group in the whole 11-18 range.

Its amazing what people have implied by my posts. We want schools for our children that don't just concentrate on SATs and exam results, but do sport and music too. If thats a state school all the better.

On a lighter note off to Winchester this weekend. Anybody recommend any child friendly pubs? I hate shopping by the way...

Enjoy your visit! Most of the nicest pubs for children for food are just outside the city. We haven't been immune to chain pub syndrome, sadly.

The Plough (Sparsholt), the Dog and Crook (Brambridge) or the Fox and Hounds (Crawley) are fab for food and give you a squint at the villages. In the city, Buddy's diner is fun if you have DCs whining for a burger but leaving you eager for anything but blardy MacDonalds. It has proper booths, proper burgers, nice chips and fat milk shakes. Our DCs love it.

The Forte Tearooms (opposite Smiths, Parchment Street - off the High Street) is a fantastic tea rooms, cafe and spot for lunch. Local produce; lovely menu; home cooked. Anything from Welsh Rarebit, jacket spuds, fish and chips. In fact, that would be my choice in the city centre.

Sans kids, the Wykeham Arms is lovely, but not child friendly. The Old Vine in the Square is lovely, but have never taken children there, so I don't know what they think of them! All of these are great for food.

Hmmmmm, Lucysmum. That's a toughie. I think that it depends on the individual and on the school. I was nearly put off teaching completely when I was training as I was in a really bad comp (elsewhere in the County) and there was an atmosphere that verged on competitive anti-intellectualism. i.e. "I like the idea of 11-16 as it really doesn't matter if your subject matter isn't up to much", "Well, if you don't know, just make it up. They won't remember it anyway" "just do enough to get them the C. Why are you bothering with more", etc.

I went into teaching because of my academic interest in my subject; I derive job satisfaction as much from thinking through the challenging questions posed by my students as I do from witnessing a light going on in their head for which I have helped them to locate the switch.

I think that the situation in the Winchester schools is better than in some of the others, and I have met some colleagues with real engagement with their pupils and their subject.

I suppose that I am in the category you describe as being academic - but that said, I have a reputation in my school as being very good with our SEN and/or weaker pupils. I did struggle with very low ability sets on teaching practice, which made me think that I would be useless with them in post, but I think with hindsight that their lack of aspiration, the appalling culture in the school and the lack of back up in the school for tackling poor behaviour was rather more of a problem than ability per se. I suspect that a bottom set at one of the city's schools would be a rather less scary place than the ones I had to teach as a student.

Notwithstanding the philisophical debate on schooling (I love Mumsnet!), Winchester is a lovely place to bring up your children, Cranbury.

Thanks Anner for the pub recommendations. Reading the Ofsted reports now, I know not really a good guide but at least a starting point.

Go for it! And do arrange some visits
Have fun here at the weekend.

Thank you, Annner. Makes sense.

Finally got to go to Winchester and the surrounding area. The town centre was very quiet, but lots of traffic and car parks quite full - where was everybody???

Area seems very rural to a Londoner, lots of the villages around Winchester are tiny. No wonder the primary schools are so small.

Very middle class, the only other place I've been to thats been like Winchester is Cambridge.

You don't sound too positive...Strange that town centre was quiet - when did you come ? Traffic is a bit odd at the moment because one of the main roads is shut. A lot of my ex London friends do find it very rural and take several years to get used to it. But London only an hour away if you need a 'fix'. I grew up in a rural area so am used to that but do miss a good curry house as i spent the previous 10 yrs in Birmigham.

It may have been because, as Lucysmum, said, because one the main arteries into town is currently shut for bridge rebuilding, and everyone just stayed away from town at the weekend because they were so sick of the struggle every week day! But we are very rarely nose-to-tail up and down the High Street, anyway.

You can also get a large city congestion fix by pitching up at Ikea in Southampton just before it opens on Sundays...

It does seem quite rural when you're used to London, and fairly middle class - see all the comments that we made earlier on in the thread about why Winchester state schools are a such a safe bet.

Lucysmum - have you been to Rhim Jim on City Road? Lush! Not a trad curry house, but yumtastic.

Cranbury - which villages did you get to nosey around? Some are more authentic than other in terms of their infrastructure. There are some dormitories, but others with a full village life.

Have tried Rim Jhim in Colden Common, but not the one in town. Was a bit too like a restaurant as opposed to curry house. Reminds me I must try Gurkha Chef again though. (next door ish). We tend to go to Gandhi nr Guildhall.

Anner can you recommend any villages with a bit of life to them? There is no sense of community where we currently live and that is also pushing us to move.

We won't be train commuters so don't need to live in the town centre. It seems there are hardly any houses to buy in the area, not sure if its temporary lack of supply but have heard its difficult.

Depends what you mean by 'a bit of life'! I would look for places with playgroup, village school, shop etc. From mine/friends' experiences Twyford, Hursley, Itchen Abbas good for families with children. Bits of Winchester also have a good community feel eg Fulflood, parts of St Cross. But you are right, affordable family houses can be an issue - not much between small terraces and large sprawling mansions.