Is there any point in encouraging our children to learn a musical instrument?

[thedollyridesout]

DD(8) is learning to play violin and piano. During term time she practices most days for around 20 minutes in total. My argument is that it is time well spent - what else would she achieve in that time?

Over the holidays she has played/practiced very little and hasn't appeared to have missed 'it' IYKWIM.

Is there any point in continuing with lessons? Will it really stand her in good stead? Won't the mathematical part of her brain develop perfectly well without learning to play an instrument?

Is it only worth it if strict rules of discipline are applied or is it not worth it if you have to apply strict rules of discipline?

A fog has descended and I am hoping that this thread will help to lift it . I would really appreciate your opinions/ideas.

does she enjoy it when she does it? do you have to nag her to practice or does she do it reasonably willingly? does she drag her feet when it's time to go to her lessons/orchestra etc or does she look forward to them?

to be honest I think very few 8 year olds would pick up an instrument during the holidays off their own bat - that's what holidays are for isn't it? playing, doing nothing, doing stuff you don't do during term time ...

I don't see why you have to be so black and white about it - there are lots of levels at which someone can enjoy and access music - she doesn't have to be a musical genius

But if it's a battle to get her to play and she's not enjoying it then my feeling is life's too short ...

btw, the most mathematically gifted of my children is completely tone-deaf and not interested at all in music, so the two things (maths and music) don't always go together

to practise even ..

I have NEVER met an adult who wished they couldn't play an instrument, plenty who've said that they wished they had continued!

Ditto somewhat. Maybe she would like to concentrate on one instrument. I did piano but my parents stopped lessons when I was a bit lax practising. I do really regret it. I suppose piano would be the ideal choice. Violins are a bit screechy aren't they (no offence intended to violining MNers . What about the guitar? I realise you may not want to buy one but can you borrow one to see how she feels.

I wouldn't worry about brain development tbh. Music probably should be about pleasure and creativity.

DD is the same age and is learning 3 instruments. She needs to do about 20mins a day on each instrument as a minimum. Through the holidays she has rarely picked up any instrument unprompted but once she has started she will play for a long time and has composed a lot of music with various parts over the holidays. If we suggest dropping any of her instruments she gets very distressed and genuinely loves the orchestras she goes to.

I don't think my DD is particularly musical at all and I have worked out we're spending approx. £2k p.a. on music! However until she is ready to give up we'll carry on, have to say though that if she consistently refused to practise or had to be bribed to do so, we'd be looking at cutting down or giving up completely, I'd love the money for another holiday every year!

Thank you all for the replies .

marialuisa - please may I ask how much input you provide in terms of your time towards your DD's music making?

DD has made good progress on both instruments over the last few years and we haven't resorted to bribery yet .

She loves performing in terms of giving pleasure to others and receiving praise. This last term she has played in an orchestra and has throughly enjoyed being part of the overall music/sound that the orchestra produces.

Although she enjoys the sense of achievement when perfecting a new piece it is difficult to know (and for her to know) if she actually gets any 'pure' pleasure from it. Is that even important or am I tying myself up in knots?

7y DD loves her piano lessons and will do hr 10 minutes piano practise most days term time. She can be reluctant with her practise, but gets it done and then gets to do what she really likes - making up her own tunes and songs, etc. Albeit still using the knowledge and skills she has gained from her lessons.

However over the holidays she has done very very little practise.

It's one thing to encuorage someone to do something they enjoy - but jsut wrong to turn an enjoyable activity into a chore. Leave her to it. Why not ask the piano teacher if they are willing for her to continue but not do exams etc - that way, she will enjoy it without the chore element.

I know how much this put me off from the piano - it totally and utterly ruined my enjoyment, for life.

I don't really know the answer to this, but despite not having missed it, what would she think if you suggested giving up? Would she then have time to do something else that might also be a valuable skill maybe? Ds plays 2 instruments & has always been very insistent that he doesn't want to give up although he's never been very diligent at practising and not playing all holiday would be totally typical for him. In spite of that he's achieved a standard where he can get plenty of enjoyment from both instruments.

An observation from the dc's school friends is that the brighter, higher achieving children do tend to be the more musical ones - but whether that's cause or effect I couldn't say. An adjudicator from the RCM recently commented at a school music competition that it was related and cited a London primary school with decidedly un-middle class intake where a bequest had been made for all children to learn musical instruments and how their results had dramatically improved, but I don't know what school it was, and I've not seen any papers describing the effect - maybe the bequest just changed the type of people applying and the result improvement was down to that.

As to adults regreting learning - I know plenty who don't regret not learning and several who regret 'wasting' so much time on learning a skill they've not used since childhood, so it's certainly not clear cut that if you stop you will definitely regret it later.

It isn't as easy to learn the complexities of music as an adult, in the same way as adults struggle to learn new languages.

As for the mentality that life is to short to make kids do stuff they don't enjoy...well why bother making them go to school lessons they hate, do their chores or anything else for that matter? You do it to set them up for later in life.

I don't think many people have the time, money or determination to learn an instrument as an adult. It is harder than when you are a child. (Although my ex-stepmother is one of the few exceptions, started the violin aged 32 and became a music teacher in her 40s.)

I will be encouraging ds to give at least one 'grown up' instrument a really good attempt. (He's currently at Ragamuffins and just learning the recorder). But if he disliked it, I'd let it go - I suffered from being made to learn the violin far too early. Hated it and sadly never learnt to play anything else as a result.

TBH I don't regularly sit with her any more, DD is "always willing to learn but not always willing to be taught" and she is approaching a point where her musical knowledge/skill will soon be beyond both mine and DH's, so I tend to only get involved if requested or if I can hear it's going badly wrong. I also stick my head round the door to remind her to do the things her teachers have specified in her notebooks rather than teaching herself a new piece!

She only learns 1/3 instruments in school so DH and I take it in turns to do the music lessons (we sit in on the half hour lessons, which both teachers prefer) but the other out of school groups are just taxi service.

We've also decided that DD will not do any more exams until secondary level (if ever) as they don't work for her and seem to be counterproductive. Obviously if DD is desperate to do an exam before then we will consider it, but so far they have been done at the teacher's behest.

If your DD enjoys it, let her carry on. One of DD's teachers is apt to forget that her pupils probably aren't planning to be professional musicians but DD knows as far as we're concerned muisc is just another fun thing for her to do-like riding and club penguin!

I don't think DD would shed any tears if we said that she had to give her instruments up. She also played trumpet last term and seemed to really enjoy the experience.

She's just passed her grade 2 piano exam and is delighted with herself despite admitting that she didn't really enjoy her lessons. She found herself in a quandary as she liked her piano teacher as a person but found him uninspiring.

On the other hand she gets a lot from her violin lessons (which I attend). Her teacher is a perfectionist and DD rises well to the challenge. Unlike her piano teacher, her violin teacher offers much praise and encouragement.

As DD is changing schools this term we have more or less decided to put piano lessons on hold. I suppose I'm hoping that she will go back to 'tinkering' with the piano the way she used to.

We'll probably continue with violin lessons for the time being and scout around for another orchestra to join. Oh, and she has just informed me that she would like to try ballet again - arrrrgh.

It doesn't just help with maths, as it were. Playing an instrument makes the neurons in your brain make many more connections within the brain. This will have a knock on effect on all aspects of brain activity. Just so you know

ime - I started piano at about 8, it was interesting for the first year, then I got really fed up with it and didn't practise. My GPs were paying for the lessons, so perfectly fairly DM said I either get practising or stop wasting their money (in a fair and calm way - she's great my mum )

I decided to perhaps go at it a little more, and after a couple of months LOVED it. Got so into it as a teenager, found it a real stress reliever. Also, was told that the Grade 8 counted as an extra qual'n on the CV (didn't do it for that, but was a nice side benefit).

So, I wouldn't make it a battle ground, just make it clear that there's no point paying for it if she's getting nothing out of it, but that you're happy to keep paying if she'd like to continue. Hopefully she will! But not the end of the world if not.

That sounds like a good solution. Hope you manage to find another orchestra or string group. The piano teacher doesn't sound very 8 year old girl friendly TBH and if she's got to grade 2 she will probably be able to sight read a fair bit of piano music if she feels like it.

If she practises in term time, why are you so bothered about tha fact she hasn't done so in the hols? You seem to be overly quick to knock em on the head.

Of course her mathematical brain will develop percfectly well.

I always assume music is for enjoyment, so if it ceases to be enjoyable it might be time to stop. Do you see it more in terms of brain development and discipline?

Dd (9) has said she doesn't want to do piano any more so I've said she can stop next term.

Ds (8) wants to continue so he will.

We don't actually have a piano at home at the moment (grrr it's in storage - we are umming and ahhing about more building work so I don't want to move it back and then have to move it out again!)

I played a lot as a child and absolutely loved it (didn't always like the practising but who does!).

I think it depends how much they love it. Ds plays less at home than dd but appears to like it more whereas dd wants to piss about (for want of a better word).

I think she may want to take it up again in a few year's time which is fine by me. She says she wants me to teach her but I suspect it's because she is totally lacking in the sort of discipline it takes to learn an instrument (if that makes sense).

ooh just read that back, sounded like I was writing off dd lol

what I meant is that she is the sort of person that can't quite see the benefit of learning and practising an instrument. She is a great singer and belongs to the choir. That's what she enjoys .

Not everyone will want to learn an instrument so I think blanket making children do it (further than the initial lessons they do in school) isn't right but encouraging them if they show they are interested, the right tack (whether that be singing in a choir or learning the piano or other instrument etc.)

Sounds like you've got a good solution in leaving piano in the school-change, at least for a term then you can see if she is actually keen to do it, but keeping going with the violin if the teacher's that good and giving her the chance to make it more sociable/meaningful with an orchestra.
IMHO young(ish) children need a fair amount of encouragement to practise what they're meant to be practising, given that there are generally several techniques and pieces to be repeated every night and it's quite easy for them to lose focus, but there comes a point when they are able and willing to practise OR they'd rather do pottery/football/mountaineering/whatever and forcing an instrument is too frustrating for everyone concerned.
As an aside, I took up oboe at Uni (having as a child been a reluctant pianist until I was allowed to drop it + a chorister which is what I really loved) and found my instrumental voice - I felt so happy with oboe and practised endlessly to get good enough to join orchestras etc ... soooo, people do find their own way whatever their age.

My dd (7) plays the violin and piano. I used to play these instumentr, but gave up a long time ago. I suppose that i am living vicariously through my daughter. I would encourage your daughter to continue for a while.