Is there any point in encouraging our children to learn a musical instrument?

[thedollyridesout]

DD(8) is learning to play violin and piano. During term time she practices most days for around 20 minutes in total. My argument is that it is time well spent - what else would she achieve in that time?

Over the holidays she has played/practiced very little and hasn't appeared to have missed 'it' IYKWIM.

Is there any point in continuing with lessons? Will it really stand her in good stead? Won't the mathematical part of her brain develop perfectly well without learning to play an instrument?

Is it only worth it if strict rules of discipline are applied or is it not worth it if you have to apply strict rules of discipline?

A fog has descended and I am hoping that this thread will help to lift it . I would really appreciate your opinions/ideas.

I learnt the piano for years, finally stopping after passing Grade VII. I now play the piano (very poorly) at school (assemblies, choir, orchestra). Although I can sightread pretty well, I never, ever get any better however much I play! It's a mechanical exercise for me - almost a mathematical one - just working out where my fingers should be at a particular time.

I am really disappointed to see that piano teaching today continues to be a race to pass exams, without any thought to creativity. The children are just taught in a boring and mechanical way, which means that the more able children (who 'get' symbols and musical notation easily) are the 'better' players. How many creative, musical children do we miss??

Also, piano lessons are very expensive and only the better-off families can afford lessons.

I believe there are some LAs that 'test' children for their innate musical ability and provide them with free lessons. (Camden????) Does anyone know about this?

Both dcs had paino lessons at primary until there was a change of teacher.
DS is dyslexic and had problems reading music but could play well by memory. She shouted at him so he didn't want to carry on and since has gone no further musically. But I do think the piano lessons he had for 4 or 5 years did help with the dyslexia.

DD always showed a lot of promise but she went on for another term with said teacher, but teacher was more interested in putting on a show for piano assembley which before that was every child who wanted to would play their current piece which went from little ones playing two finger excercises to some of the best players (who went on to get scholorships) playing very complex pieces.Every child was given a chance and it was lovely.
New teachers idea of piano assembly was giving her favorites 2 or 3 pieces to play and others like dd had to spend all term practising a 3 finger piece to accompany another child. I was fuming so we stopped lessons.
DD has now at secondary and started voice lessons,but is learning to play guitar in guitar club (which is free). DD is now using the internet to teach herself her favorite songs on the piano. She plays her organ far more than she ever did when she had lessons.

I think it's completely worth it whether or not you apply strict discipline, as long as you ENJOY it.

I play the violin and piano, and have a music degree. I taught the violin and played professionally for a few years after graduating, but I've been a primary school teacher for 12 years now. I still play both instruments, though the piano is pretty much relegated to school use now; I keep playing the violin in orchestras and my quartet.

I was never one for huge amounts of practice as a child, but I did love it, and always have done. I was never forced to practise, just given a gentle nudge in the right direction. I didn't find out until I was about 21 that every time my parents suggested I wash up or tidy my room I'd decide I had music practice to do! They were so sneaky! The only time doing music stopped me doing anything else was when I got to university and the sports afternoon clashed with the orchestra afternoon, so I had to give up playing netball.

I think it's a brilliant skill to have, especially if your DD can get to a reasonable standard - she'll be able to play her favourite pop and Disney songs on either instrument, for example. I would suggest buying her a variety of books like that anyway, so she's not stuck with uninspiring exam music all the time. The music needs to be relevant to HER, not her teacher or an exam board. Another tip is to buy CDs with different styles of violin and piano playing to inspire her - it can sometimes work in helping keep them motivated if they want to be able to play a certain piece or style. By the way, I would question the 'worth' of a teacher who works methodically through the grades without bothering to find out what type of music the child really wants to play or is inspired by. The most important thing is to make music sociable and enjoyable. If the teacher isn't doing that, they're not worth keeping with - find a new one.

I've just started teaching my DS (5) the violin (his choice). I love the surprise on people's faces when my shouty, active, 'boysy' boy declares that he plays the violin! (And he's joining the local string orchestra next term.) At his age, I have to sit with him to practise, but I certainly wouldn't expect to need do this by the time he's at junior school.

Also wanted to say I learned recorder and then flute at secondary but stopped partly due to peer pressure (my bfs played instruments and gave up at the same time) and we had a really bad head of music. The school orchestra went down from about 20 odd and some teachers to just a flute and two clarinets( bfs and I).

When dcs started to learn piano I started to teach myself as well, didn't get that far but I can pick out a tune.

Our local library has loads of sheet music books. DD got the Camp Rock book from there, she also finds a lot of sheet music she likes on the internet for free (not sure how legal that it

I would say it is def good to encourage learning an instrument.
DD plays flute ,is terrible at practicing but does enjoy playing music that she chooses rather than exam pieces.

It has brought her a lot of pleasure in secondary school being part of the productions they do every yr.
She almost chose music as her degree of choice but has since changed her mind.
She has also benefited from having extra ucas points becasue of her musical grades passed and working towards diploma , so she ispleased about that.

I haven't had to push her to practice , tbh I gave up but she has doen well anywya.

I think a lot of enjoyment kids have in making music comes from the home environment. People get their kids learning instruments as it is seen as a socially "good" thing to do, but no one else plays at home, so making music becomes something the child does on his own, or in lessons. I also think that if you have a not very musical home, but you still want your child to play something, you should pick an instrument which is group-friendly, ie not the piano. Also, the music teacher at my dd's school is really sensible in choosing the best instrument for a child: the less musically adept ones are steered towards easier instruments. And finally, even if you push/gently steer your child through music exams, you are going to come a cropper about Grade 5 when they have to do music theory too which is FAR from easy. So my feeling is that unless the child or you is really keen, stick to football or tennis! Philistine, sorry.

cloelia, your points are probably true in some cases, but you cannot generalise. We are a non-musical home yet ds loves piano and enjoys cello. Grade 5 theory wasn't an issue - a bright child can pick it up fairly quickly, and if not, trinity guildhall exams don't require it.

I would have had philistine leanings like you before ds got the bug, but now would always recommend giving at least one musical instrument a serious try before writing it off. I'd also recommend a sport or two as well if possible.

I agree with snorkie.We are not musical at all but our DD is doing cello and piano.She loves her both instruments and we do not push her for the exams but she is fine doing them.I would rather she loves her instruments and enjoys music rather than have a piece of paper showing she has achieved certain level in them.She has not done much practise over the holiday it does not bother me as I know that she will get into the swing of things once they all go back to school. Children are children. when we are all relaxing and in holiday mood- why deny them that.

Please let your child just enjoy making music.
A lot of kids don't practice during the holidays.
I would definately encourage joining an orchestra of some sort.
She will only benefit from music if she enjoys it.

dd is just learning the violin, so just the one instrument. Term time she'll do scales in the morning , maybe 40 minutes at night. In the holidays she practises briefly since there are no new pieces to learn. She does it first thing in the morning, whilst I'm making breakfast - maybe 10 minuutes. I find it best to get it out of the way and I'm not drgonian about it but she just accepts, she does it first thing, like maybe other dc make their bed first thing. I have her start with 1 easy piece (anything she likes, just to get the fingerings right), then scales (not sure she truly listens to that always but apparently she's supposed to do it), then the rest, wind up by coming into the kitchen and playing something to me, anything at all. Today it sounded like that Bonanza theme...

Only time I wouldn't bother in the holidays is if a dc is sick, obvously, or the instrument badly out of tune and neither the dc or a parent knows how to tune it. Then maybe it's best to leave it.

I second letting her have some books of own to play from in the holidays if she is not learning new pieces. Dd has a book of folklore type songs and she likes playing those. They're not difficut and a lot of them the dc will know already so easy to fathom. She also liked the Harry Potter theme tune so she'll have a bash at figuring things like that out and we sometimes look for the notes to something she liked, theme song, something they're singing in choir, etc.

I think it's nice to have some freedom with the instrument (but I'm neither a teacher nor a player so may be talking through a hole in my head here). For Christmas dd liked the sound of tu scendi delle stelle (100% italophile kid) and so she practised that on the violin, for instance. Also she heard a Turkish song on youtube and decided to learn that - Uskundari or something like that. No idea what that was about but have heard it maybe 20 x a day for a week now.

can't honestly claim to see a connection in our case between music and maths ability, will await with baited breath this clicking into place

am another of those mums living vicariuosly through their dc I'll admit. Can't play anything. Mostly due to my family bouncing about the globe during my childhood and living in some out of the way places where tbh with the best will in the world it would be hard to find a qualified oboe teacher etc. Maybe if I had to practice every day as a dc, I might approach it all differently.

"I have NEVER met an adult who wished they couldn't play an instrument, plenty who've said that they wished they had continued!"

I bet you know even more who don't wish they had continued because those people don't tend to bang on about it.

Why two instruments at such a young age?

If you want her to enjoy it, get her to join an orchestra.

Thedolly wrote: "She loves performing in terms of giving pleasure to others and receiving praise. This last term she has played in an orchestra and has throughly enjoyed being part of the overall music/sound that the orchestra produces."
I think your role is to be the praising audience at home during practice if you can manage it.

So she is in an orchestra and enjoys that side of it. I don't know if practising is ever going to be pure pleasure. There will be good days when things click into place, days when they battle more with something and days when they just don't feel like it. I think if the orchestra is enjoyable, I would continue with violin. More difficult to have a group experience with piano

I've just changed teacher and dd will have a new teacher from this week.I wanted someone who takes it more slowly and gives her more time on each piece. I like the way she plays a piece many times with the dc during a lesson, not just once and that she has playful elements in there. After observing a couple of her lessons, I feel she shows the dc how to practise in a manner I find much more effective. Have no great aspirations for dd's music and I certainly wouldn't have managed 2 instruments with the kind of intensity dd had to put into the violin with her first teacher. Never thought I knew enough about it to judge the teaching really but I do feel this teacher is more on my dd's wavelength

my musical background is a bit random, so bear with me...

in junior school i learned recorder (mainly and a bit of guitar. i was pretty good at recorder but not so good at guiter.
my big sister was good at both.
when she started seniors, she had piano lessons. my mum bought a piano and mum and i both learned to play a bit without a teacher (just those piano primer books etc). big sis stopped playing at school cos it was boring and mum and i carrid on.
piano got woodworm and had to leave the house.
no more piano (mum daren't risk more woodworm!)
back to recorder in the main.

didn't do much musically all the way through seniors because music dept in new school was a bit cliquey (no free music lessons going around like in old school)
i started to learn the vioin when i went to 6th form college (always wanted to)
never went back to piano because they didn't have any spare lessons. but i did learn a piece all by myself.
after college didn't play much at all (no lessons, noone liked my playing )
as a grown-up i concentrated more on singing (did that all the way through) and was in church choirs (still am) but have recently gone back to learning the piano as there is now one at home - i never had a chance to play on the one in the church because it took me about half an hour to play a psalm chant

i was never encouraged in my music when i was an older child because it sounded bad and i didn't have enough confidence to practise more at home (dad used to joke it sounded like cat-strangling)
it's really really hard learning to play the piano now, and i'm sure i was better at picking stuff up when i was younger.
for me, it was a mix of reasons, but i say for anyone if they are learning then keep them at it as long as possible.
(they don't always like learning maths and english either but they do it because they have to) because it is a useful skill.

My son has piano grade 8, singing grade 8 and trumpet grade 7 he is 17 - he says he will always be grateful for me saying he could give up at grade 5 (eg. when you have GCSE you can choose!!). He now plays for hours every day - teaches and makes good pocket money from it and of course weddings/funerals etc. (also choral scholarship from Oxford offer) My other children are child 2 - 1 grade 8, 2 grade 7's, child 3 - 1 grade 7, 1 grade 6 and child 4 2 grade 3's.
Bottom line is not what they've achieved but that they now love it.
Yes we had the lean periods of NO practice but heigh ho - I hate maths and some children hate tables but we stil encourage them.
I am not especially musical but I will never regret the time and money spent on music.

Yes playing an instrument is great for academic and social reasons. Ok I'm an instrumental teacher so a bit biased. Most of my students don't practice much in the holidays, though it's true that the ones who do get more out of their lessons. I think the main thing to consider is that just turning up to the lesson once a week will not make your child love music, it needs to be part of their life. Lots of children I see never listen to music played on the instrument they're learning for example, something so easy to do with itunes, you tube etc. these days. And playing at home by yourself is not enough either, best is to be in an orchestra/band/choir so you can meet people and make music together, and have some support at home (just a parent listening is enough) to practice in between. This is much better than doing exams imo. Only thing about stopping lessons and expecting to carry on later - older children are so busy with homework etc. that they generally don't have time to pick up again,I've had a few doing GCSE/A level music who stopped lessons at 9/10/11 and then can't catch up even though very able.