Primary Schools=Men Free Zones - Sad?

[Willbreakmybones]

Hi

I'm a newbie here but I've become increasingly concerned by the near total lack of male teachers/staff in the all the 5 primary schools I have looked around for our kids. I have two boys who, like most boys, are into sports, adventure stuff and getting dirty.

What message are my boys going to get if there is not one single male teacher in their school? (Even the governing bodies are overwhelmingly female!) Gender steotyping and aspirations aside, how will the quality of their education differ from those who attend schools which have more of a 50/50 male female mix?

Sure, sports clubs for boys do seem to take place but they are run by outside organistations who obviously do not know the children as well as the staff.

I used to be secondary school teacher, and the schools I worked in had a rougly 50/50 split which was ideal for a large mixed school. But primary schools?

Anyone else out there as concerned as me that our schools do no adequately reflect society?

shelling I wasn't taking issue with you honest, in my cack handed way I was backing you up. Nobody wants useless teachers of either sex.

• pointy, it's fine to argue, I have no proof as it's purely anecdotal. Genuinely though the male teachers in primary I've encountered are incredibly motivated. I'm not including here the ones who taught me, as they were woeful, but these days there seems to be a vast improvement. I'm guessing the fact it's relatively unusual makes them really think through who they are and why they want to commit before training and working in the primary sector. Anyone who does that, to me is probably (not definitely) going to be a good teacher.
• Disclaimer alert!! before anyone jumps on me, am not at all saying women primary teachers aren't equally motivated. that would be a truly daft thing to say, as the huge majority are.

Gosh! Sorry Smee, I was not having a go either, just to put my point of view... It's difficult when you can't visually read other people's responses.

My personal view is that: (a) male teachers can be put off by the supposed view that any man who wants to work with children under the age of 11 must be a perve; (b) the monetary issues must have something to do with it; (c) there is little self-esteem associated with teaching, even though it is one of the most important skills around and is invaluable for the development of our chidlren (just read some of threads regarding teachers on MN); and (d) the lack of a consistent positive male role model in some children's lives now means that male teachers are perceived as more valuable than ever before. (None of above stated in any particular order, just as they came to mind).

I would love to see more male teachers, but they have to be worth their salt. All teachers need to be able to engage with their pupils, be inspired and enthusiastic.

pointydogg - i am sure i did not say that my DSs female teachers have contributed to his poor achievement just that the male teacher he had made massive inroads with him. Sometimes young female primary teachers don't relate well to boys. Out of my DSs teachers - 1 male, 2 more mature females and 3 young females - none of the younger female teachers really knew how to deal with the boys (although one of the young female teachers only treated the school as a stop gap before getting pregnant which is fair enough - i understand this, being a teacher myself). It is a hard job though - no mistake, I couldn't be a primary teacher for anything.

Thanks for all your comments - interesting reading.

But it's not just teachers, per se, that seem to lack men; teaching assistants, cover supervisors, support staff (SEN/EAL etc), governors, LEA staff, inspectors et al - overwhelmingly female.

My DH aside, do men, 'on the whole' just not give a about schools?

Inflammatory, sure. But research points to the UK and the USA as having the lowest percentage of men directly involved in formal schooling as paid employees in the developed world? So why do,say, Germany, France and Spain have more men involved? The cultural aspect(s) are surely significant.

I was responding to this comemnt, stille: "There are many factors that have contributed to his weak academic achievement and I really do think that lack of male teachers is one of them"

we have half of our teachign staff as men

once you have one...
oh and they are all under 50 - most under 40

Yes i stick by that statement too pointydogg. I am sure that with good male teachers he would have done even better and have been further inspired.

We'll never know. But as long as this remains i nteh realms of irrational opinions, we won;t move on.

Not 'irrational' opinion I assure. I am all for female teachers (I am one!) but I do really agree that male teachers benefit boys. Particularly where there are not strong male role models at home.

Irrational infofar as it is a gut feeling with nothing of substance to back it up other than one personal case.

"But it's not just teachers, per se, that seem to lack men; teaching assistants, cover supervisors, support staff (SEN/EAL etc), governors, LEA staff, inspectors et al - overwhelmingly female."

Well, I can't comment on LEA staff or inspectors etc, but in our school TAs are all female, supply teachers generally are female, but the governors are predominantly male... Hmm.

TA staffing being predominantly female is not surprising considering that it is poorly paid and many are part time. Similarly with supply teaching staff - perhaps to do with men being perceived as or are, in fact, the main breadwinners in the family. Therefore those working as supply teachers without a regular income are more likely to be women.

My DH would dearly love to be more involved with schooling, but work commitments mean that is not going to happen - it's down to the women, who tend to adopt more flexible workloads after having children to bear the brunt of responsibility.

Yes thats all any of us can say really unless we want to spout stat and counter-stat. One case, my son, the most important case to me I am sure you can understand. It is not merely a gut feeling either - I have seen the way my son changed from having his female teachers to the male teacher in year 5. Many other boys also changed, became far more focussed and interested in school. I teach girls all day and so does my DH - I see how they are different with me and him - they are more relaxed and open with me - could the same not work the other way round?

I think individuaL personality, teaching style and experience is far far mor e important than bringing it down to a male/female divide which no one can do anything about.

I think of course that all of those are very important factors but that of course at a very basic level each gender should be represented as proportionate to the society we live in for the benefit of all within the smaller community of a school.

That's not going to happen, though, stille. It would be useful and interesting to look at why, perhaps.

"...but I do really agree that male teachers benefit boys. Particularly where there are not strong male role models at home."

stillenacht, that may be the case and I can see in children where they have no positive male role model it would be invaluable. On the other hand, going back to personal experience and purely anecdotal, my DS has had 2 female teachers who have shaped his primary education - his reception teacher who was wonderfully caring and motherly, and his current Yr 6 teacher who is anything but! She expects (and gets) the best from her pupils because she has high expectations, takes no nonsense and earns the respect of her pupils. Gender in this case is irrelevant.

I think it's fairly irrelevant too, shelling.

And I tend to think there is more chance to increase boys' role models out of school than recruit more male teachers in primaries.

true - I can see this to be the case but unfortunately my DS has had 4 years of very weak female teachers and his reception year was disrupted by a lovely female teacher going on mat leave (not the same as the teacher who was biding her time before she had her baby). Perhaps then some boys really benefit from male teachers - my son happens to be one of them.

Yes there def should be more male role models in wider society for young boys - and not just revolting overpaid undereducated footballers!

"Yes there def should be more male role models in wider society for young boys - and not just revolting overpaid undereducated footballers!"

So agree - my DS wants to be one. (urrgh)

But I'd also like to see there more positive female role models than the likes of Jordan and whichever current girlband singer happens to be on air!

Totally agree.

I think it is a shame that our infant school has no men on the staff.

There are plenty on the GB tho.

Our junior school has men - yes, fewer than women but DS1 has had two male literacy teachers and now his class teacher is a man.

TBH the problem is that primary school teaching is so poorly paid (relative to much industry) that is is seen by many man as not being a reasonable option to provide for their families.

Disclaimer: in this family it has generally been the other way around wrt main breadwinner (tho not at the moment again)

ours is obv a magnet for men then
two infant teachers are men too

you lot need to get on the gov body

my DC (y 1 adn 6) are starting new school in 3 weeks and both have male teachers in their new classes.

School they are at now has just 1 male on the staff, across the wHOLE school (oh, and the caretaker is male too).

Poor bloke