Primary Schools=Men Free Zones - Sad?

[Willbreakmybones]

Hi

I'm a newbie here but I've become increasingly concerned by the near total lack of male teachers/staff in the all the 5 primary schools I have looked around for our kids. I have two boys who, like most boys, are into sports, adventure stuff and getting dirty.

What message are my boys going to get if there is not one single male teacher in their school? (Even the governing bodies are overwhelmingly female!) Gender steotyping and aspirations aside, how will the quality of their education differ from those who attend schools which have more of a 50/50 male female mix?

Sure, sports clubs for boys do seem to take place but they are run by outside organistations who obviously do not know the children as well as the staff.

I used to be secondary school teacher, and the schools I worked in had a rougly 50/50 split which was ideal for a large mixed school. But primary schools?

Anyone else out there as concerned as me that our schools do no adequately reflect society?

I totally agree (as a secondary teacher myself). I have 2 sons too (youngest in special school and he is only 6 so not sure if it will have same impact). My eldest has really suffered in an all female (bar the Head and one other teacher) environment. Best year at the school was in year 5 when he had the male teacher who inspired him so much I can't tell you (in DT). It was wonderful to see his confidence and self esteem grow. We are moving him out of state education to go into year below in independent school (into year 5) as he is August bithday and has always struggled academically. Our plan is to keep him there till GCSEs over (out of year group) so he has a little more of a chance. There are many factors that have contributed to his weak academic achievement and I really do think that lack of male teachers is one of them - not maybe a massive contributor but a contributor all the same.

I completely agree. Our primary has a male headteacher and one other male teacher - with three other female teachers and around 5 female teaching assistants. I think it's really good that the kids are seeing both male and female role models at that agee but from what I can gather from other schools in the area, it's really unusual.

Yes, totally agree. We just had a male head leave (t be an advisor) and a Y6 teacher leave (to secondary). The only male teacher in the school (out of 18) is an NQT.

It was made even more ridiculous by the appalling application forms submitted by men for the two jobs we advertised in the summer term. One, for instance, was a third of a page long in size 18 font! All the male applicants (without exception) seemed like they couldn't give a damn.

Mind you, I can't blame any young person not wanting to teach. You have to be so in control of your life - it's not much fun teaching 30 children with a blazing hangover, or not being able to go down the pub because you've got to plan.... (That's not me saying it's a bad job, because I really enjoy it, but I'm not 22 - and I know my 22 year-old self wouldn't have lasted a week!!)

And the overriding comment is 'we have/had a male head'
That gives an equally depressing vision of the world for our daughters. They see women as teachers and men as bosses

yes Angrypixie - i agree Although there is no shame in being a teacher though

You're right to be cross Andrypixie, it does send a dreadful message, although most male heads, I assume, never took years off to raise children, hence they found it much easier to progress up the ranks than mums who needed a career break to bring up kids.

I worry that the whole societal and governmental obsession, driven by a sensationalist media, with child safety and well being, CRB, Enhanced CRBs, plus whatever other acronyms have sprouted in the last several months, are putting off some men about considering a career working with children, especially young children.

Tragic, I know, but in the words of the Prince of Wales, c. 1937, inspecting the hovels that coal miners had to inhabit, "something must be done".

Legislation won't work, we've had had far too much of that as it is. So where to start?

From my understanding, the sheer amount of box ticking and form filling required of teachers, plus approaches to teaching and discipline which are very alien to men is as damaging as anything else.

I went to two different junior schools which both had former professional footballers amongst the teaching staff. I doubt such men would even consider teaching today.

I agree too. Over a quarter of primary schools have no male teachers, and I think that the effects of this are enormous.
A friend of mine councels young people who have been excluded from school - nearly all of them are boys, and about 99% of them have never had a positive male role model in their lives.

I don't blame men for being wary of wanting to go into Primary teaching though, for all the very good reasons listed by Willbreakmybones. Our local cubs group has recently closed down for the same reason .

DS's school has several male teachers (and a female head and a female specialist science teacher). But it's private (and the male teachers thing was one of the factors that tipped the balance in our stereotypical middle-class "state vs. private?" wobbles). So is it a pay thing? Not sure what the staff at DS's school are paid.

We're an inner city primary in a deprived area and have 50% male teachers. Very unusual I know, so we feel lucky. Just wanted to say that it does exist though .

Interesting.

From the research I have undertaken it seems to be the schools at either extreme that have plenty male members of staff; aka inner city/challenging schools or leafy/private fee paying schools; the former often have lots of close church/community/government agency or task force links which bring in male role models (not always qualified teahers, but good role models nevertheless), whereas the latter offer a curriculum (seperate subject teaching, lots of PE/games, competitive learning environment) that are often the first choice of school for the few male primary teachers there are.

Angrypixie; you are right to be annoyed by the message being sent vis a vis Head=man, teachers=woman. I get just as anguished by the real-life facts of part-time=woman, full-time=man; just as gender stereotypical imo, although not stated as much.

I agree too - being on my own with a DS I'm looking for good role models for him. Unfortunately at his school there are only 3 male teachers

Willbreakmybones, you've obviously gone into it properly and I haven't at all, but if our school is in the challenging bracket, but isn't church or agency linked. It's just got lots of qualified male teachers.

Unfortunately salaries in primary schools are a bit lower than those in secondary or private primaries, so perhaps families can make ends meet more effectively if the men teach in schools other than traditional primaries.

My DH works in a primary school. The pay is appalling. That is probably why most men won't do it.

We have a male teacher in my DCs school and he is great. But not all male teachers are fantastic just by definition of their gender - at another school nearby there is a male teacher and when children are in his class it is regarded as a bit of a waste year by all accounts.

Yes there should be more good male teachers, but just the fact of them being male does not a good teacher make (iyswim).

And I'm not denigrating the fact that there should be more male teachers in primary schools - I only had one male teacher myself (back in the dark ages of the 70s) before I went to secondary school and then, all of sudden, they were predominantly male and very scary!

shelling, I don't think anyone would disagree with you. nobody's saying that men are better teachers - that would be a shocking statement, as there are so many fantastic woman primary teachers. I have no evidence for this whatsoever, but a man choosing to go into primary teaching is sadly unusual, so logically those who do are mostly motivated, fired up and so interesting. Which on balance arguably means the majority will be good teachers.

Smee, I don't think I said anyone else said male teachers were better... I was making the point that yes, there should be more male teachers, but just to increase the percentage of male teachers regardless of whether or not they are good at what they do rather negates the point of having more male teachers in the first place. Rather circular I'm sorry, but I've been up all night with ill DD and my head hurts.

As our head teacher said, they try to employ male teachers but they can't when there are none of the required standard.

what are they meant to do? Employ substandard teachers just because they are male?

I was wondering (as you do) in years past, what was the predominance of male vs female teaching staff in primary schools in years gone by? Hasn't it traditionally been seen as a female domain, at least in the 20th century, if not before?

I know my father, who was a primary teacher in the 60s and 70s was relatively unusual. And I've been totting up the number of male staff members in my primary (a large one in NZ in the 1970s), and there were only 5 male staff members, apart from the head teacher for around 500 pupils. They taught the equivalent of Years 5 or 6.

The 5 male teachers at my sons primary school (and only one class intake per year so not millions of teachers there!) was one of the main factors in choosing it above the other two local schools.

I like my boys to have male role models and also to see that looking after small children is not the domain of women only! One of these men teaches year one.

At their nursery there was a fab male nursery nurse for a year or so, some mums were muttering about whether it was appropriate fgs!! But we were just happy to see a male face about the place.

Several male teachers in ds's junior school and a good thing too.

But I wouldn't take it for granted that just because somebody is male they will be into sports and adventure- or that a female teacher won't.

My own junior school teacher was a man, but as unsporty (and probably unadventurous) as they come. Nice man, but afraid we found him a bit soppy.

We're looking at primary schools at the moment. Of our 3 closest, one is entirely female, but the other two are fairly well mixed. When I went to look round one of the two with male teachers, it was pointed out to me as a thing to note, which I thought was a bit odd.

Having said that, my mum was a primary teacher til she retired 2 years ago, and always worked with only women. Her staffroom was soooooo catty. I hated going in with her as a teen.

There is some research that shows that having a male or female teacher has no effect on children's achievement. Stillneacht's comment about female teachers contributing to poor achievement surpirses and irks me but as it's one of these purely personal andirrational opinions, there' s not much anyone can say against it.

It is a shame there aren't more male primary teachers, just because a balance of male and female staff is generally A Good Thing in any workplace. However, we cannot force men to become teachers. Better to look at why they don't want to be, perhaps.

I know a teacher who is incredibly sporty and loves taking rugby and basketball clubs. SHe is irritated by a lazy assumption that men are sporty and rugby isn't for girls.

Smee, I would certianly argue with you that beccause there afe fewer male teachers, this means the majority will be good.