Dd told she should be thinking Oxbridge

[asdx2]

Dd y12 was invited to attend the applying for Oxbridge chat yesterday at school.
She was a little bemused as she isn't really sure of just how good she is but went along anyway and is open minded to the idea.
She is still unsure about what she would study at any uni. Her A2s are Maths, Further Maths, History and Economics predicted at least A in them all probably a couple of A*
So why should she consider Oxbridge as a serious option?

She should consider a top league university, definitely. There is no compelling reason why that should specifically be Oxford or Cambridge (two very distinct and different universities, both of which are divided into about 20(?) colleges all of which are again, very different) unless she visits them and really really likes what she sees.

What does she want to study? It really does matter what the subject is as to which universities she should be applying to. If she wanted to study estate management, for example, then Reading has one of the most well respected courses in the country. It isn't as simple as Russell Group=good, ex poly=bad.

You must be very pleased though, so well done to her. The most important thing is that she has a options and needs to help to consider them.

Well why wouldn't she consider it?

She's obviously very able and we do tend to assume that means oxbridge but that isn't necessarily so. She needs to look at courses and places a bit to get an idea of what she wants to do. Something or someplace will grab her and you can go from there.

Xenia will be along shortly to say that unless you go to Oxford or Cambridge then basically you will never be a MC lawyer and you won't be able to afford to send your children to private school and go skiing and might as well be dead.

Just you wait.

What I was asking I suppose is other than their reputations what else makes them a good choice?
Do employers in general consider an Oxbridge graduate as more valuable than one of the less presigious uni's?
Things like that I suppose.

She is a bit overwhelmed tbh as we are. Dd struggled academically until year five. For example level 1 sats in year 2 and only attained an average reading level age 9. It still seems pretty new to us that she has become so able and I think she lacks a lot of confidence in what she is capable of.

For some employers and some roles an oxbridge education will actually be a disadvantage because of the myths etc that surround it, for others it will be a huge plus. You can't possibly begin to assess that though till your dd knows what she wants to do with her life - and even when she does you will never be able to know what advantage or otherwise it is. I would forget that aspect tbh, it's too uncertain. Just concentrate on her finding out where she wants to go in life and therefore what uni fits that and where will she be happy? Three years is a long time to spend somewhere you loathe!

In general people are always going to be impressed by having been to Oxford or Cambridge, yes, that is true to say. Does she have any clue what she wants to study - arts, sciences, a vocational course like law or medicine? "It depends" is a bit of a crap answer, but is really does....depend.

If she wants to say, be a barrister in a top commercial set in London then yes, rightly or wrongly she pretty much needs to have gone to Oxford or Cambridge.

There is the flip side that says that the experience of Oxford and Cambridge is in itself inherently valuable because you meet well connected people and study in an atmosphere of rarified learning that is quite unparalelled elsewhere. As very few people have been an undergraduate at both Oxford and another Russell Group uni that is hard to say for sure. It might have been true 20 years ago. Not sure now.

My dd had the talk yesterday too and she has been told to seriously consider applying. She is doing Law, Maths, English, French and Accountancy. She is predicted A* in at least Law, Maths and French. They also suggested that she starts reading for eg The Times everyday and joins some debating things to help her prepare for it.

She knows she wants to study Law and is thoroughly enjoying it BUT she said it would cost a fortune to go to Oxbridge and she isn't sure she wants to leave home when she can commute to Leeds Uni. I will be watching this thread with interest.

It sounds as though she should certainly be applying to the best places for her chosen course with those predicted grades

Yes, employers do consider red brick universities above others, it is an unfortunate fact. This doesn't always folklow of course and it very much depends on what she wants to do. If she wants to teach maths for example then she would be snapped up after doing a maths degree pretty much anywhere. If she wants to get on a good graduate scheme such as PWC then a Russell Group university is pretty much a must.

Surely her teachers should be advising her rather more than just suggesting she comes along to a 'chat' and why is specifically an 'oxbrige' chat as others have sadi - she needs to look around at coiurses available and then decide what univertsities off the course she finds most interesting. Should be nothing mystical about 'oxbridge' specifically.

She should speak to some Oxford or Cambridge studengts, from her own school or area if possible. I was first in my family to go to university and went to Oxford. It is a one-off experience. For the right person it is incredible, for the wrong person it must be a nightmare as it is so full-on.

A lot of the myths are untrue, but some of them aren't and it is worth speaking to other people who have experienced it for her to find out what it is really like and whether it would suit her as a learning style (as that is one thing that is quite different from a lot of other unis)

Agree with Georgimama that colleges are also quite different from each other. I had no idea, and applied to the only one that said in its prospectus that it welcomed people doing my degree choice (which was a bit unusual). Think if I had known more I might have chosen a different college as, despite the friendships and experiences etc etc, not sure it was the best fit for my personality.

As I said, I had no idea and neither did anyone in my family or friends, but it is definitely worth chatting to people to find out.

In response to your actual question of why should she consider it, if she learns in a self-supporting way and is quite questioning and passionate for her subject, it really is a great place to study. If she likes lots of supported study, lectures and classes and feedback etc etc then there may be places that would suit her better (although I guess that Oxbridge sciencey types do get more structure than arts people?).

In life, I have no idea if it has helped me to get jobs etc etc but, then again, I resent the implication that university should be all about future employment. I know it is out of fashion, but I think developing the tools to think critically and to learn are invaluable as an end in themselves and don't think you should ever pick a university just on the bases of imagined future job prospects, IYSWIM?

Good luck to her with her choices!

PMSL at Georgiamama. I'll have you know that I DIDN'T to go Oxbridge and I am/was a lawyer and I sent my children to private school and DD is going skiing at easter. So there

Are Year 12 seriously getting predicted grades already? I thought they didn't get them until next spring?

It's worth thinking about the endgame now IME. Also worth thinking about US universities as an option - many people do nowadays. It's a great experience.

You can't pick a uni until you know what course you're doing IMO. Oxbridge degrees get you noticd in a crowded job market that's their main advantage.

Agree about looking at courses. Bottom line is resources: Oxbridge and top 4 London unis just command more funds than others, because of endowments, research concentration etc..

But I would ask difficult questions about the outcomes of the course (how many students go into the jobs expected?) and - in particular - about the teaching. And look at the National Student Survey to see what current students say about the experience.

I would hazard a guess that teaching and learning opportunities are better at Oxbridge than the top 4 London unis (a bit) and many Russell Group unis (a bit more) mostly because of who ends up doing the teaching/marking, how well supported the students are, and how much contact time and support they get...

The reasons for this are that in the competitive research funding environment, lots of teaching is done by postgraduates and not subject specialists and research leaders, who 'contract out' their time.

Of course it depens what kind of student your DC will be. If they're schooled in a grammar or independent school environment, or anywhere where independent thinking and learning is just expected, to be left to their own devices a bit more might not be a shock.

Just don't expect the 'best' places to deliver the 'best' experiences. Many do, but it is highly college, department, programme and staff specific...

Obviously the school are discussing university applications with the whole of the sixth form. Dd was invited to the presentation along with a couple of others who seemingly fit the bill too. An ex student who went on to Oxford was there to chat about the pros and cons as well as the general overview.
Dd attends a state comp, non selective but very much into independent learning in so far as I can tell. Dd thrives under this system as she is organised and motivated and pretty competitive.
Will need to chat to head of sixth form tbh although I knew she was predicted high grades as she did neither of us expected that Oxbridge would be a possible option.

Should imagine that she will be looking at Maths courses as that's her preferred area I should add.

Well in the league table AFAIK cambridge is the place to go for maths.

I went to uni and I don't actually use my degree so for me it was more about the life experience! I opted out of a place at Oxford as it was just too academic focused (rightly so) for my liking. I opted for Bristol instead as I like the city & people and it felt more "fun".

I got a first in psychology and did a second degree in law; so didn't just pary hard at the expense of the tax payer before I get flamed!

just think I need to qulifiy the above. Oxford felt very structured and full on in it's approach with lots of deadline and extra further study. I'm more of a laid back person, less structured and prefer more of a free hand in what I do and when I do it. Hence opting for Bristol which had less structure but help there if and when you needed it without ramming it down your throat!

Bristol was also closer to home which made it a little less scarey!

Don't know if its the case now, but in fact way back when I was at college it was easier financially at Cambridge than for friends elsewhere because you could live in halls all three years (some colleges cheaper than others tho) and because although it was too full on to work in term time, the terms were only 8 weeks long so lots of opportunity to get work in the holidays.
(I chose Cambridge over the LSE for that reason, course probably better at the LSE, but I would have been stony broke for three years.)
But like everyone else says, it depends what you want to study.
Also worth being aware that colleges are very, very different, don't know how it is now, but 20 yrs back the newer colleges (or Kings which was still quite radical) were a much better bet if you were coming from a state school than Magdalen or Peterhouse. I'm sure there are people on here with dcs at Oxbridge who could tell your dd which colleges are more chilled these days if she does want to apply.

asdx, It's quite common for bright kids to start thriving late, and not realise how talented they are. how brilliant that she's finally realising it herself - doesn't really matter whether she goes down the Oxbridge route or not if the fact it's an option has made her realise her own ability. If it were my daughter I think I'd tell her to go look round everywhere and decide where she wants to go. Sounds like she'll do brilliantly wherever she ends up, so happiness is key I'd say.

Hear, hear, Dorasbakpak. We're not Charles Clarke like little employees in the making. University is for life, not just a job.

THat said, I have changed (radically) career several times and employers have frequently said I only got interviews because I had been to Oxbridge. They wanted to have a look at me, they said.

well first step is to narrow down likely choice of courses, then read up on the courses at oxford/cambridge and other universities and see whether that gives her strong views for or against oxbridge. then if she still thinks oxbridge, go and visit the universities, ideally if she can fix up to go on a subject related open day.