bbc news tonight - parents lying to get into schools made me wonder...

[jollygumbear]

if you rent your house out and then rent yourself in catchment and live there for a year does that make the application for the school illegal?

i won't say "wrong" as that's another thread as its all about personal opinion!

thanks

Happy, I did say that it is only some CofE schools that restrict admissions to church-going families. My nearest school is one. There are plenty of others. As well as some that are more open. IMO they should all be open to local children as they are part of the state and the state - established - church.

(And it's no skin off my nose that ds wouldn't get into the school, as his community school is A. excellent and B. nearly as close. It's the principle I object to.)

Happywomble, I know that some faith schools take children of other/no faith backgrounds. I have already said this on this thread more than once. I have also said that have no problem with these schools, and indeed that I feel very favourably towards them.

My problem is with the admissions policies of those others like my very local Catholic school in which all the children are baptised Catholic and almost all have letters from the priest confirming regular attendance at the local church.

Was there anything else?

But a CofE school like my local primary presumably isn't what Zeph and others object to womble. It is only the selective faith schools that are controversial?

Are the 'voluntary aided' CofE schools the ones that have selective places?

x-post sorry.

A generalisation, but faith schools tend to be good not because of faith per se, but because the middle classes are more likely to be churchgoers.

Church is open to everyone, MM7777. You don't just see middle classes there - you see all classes, although of course everyone is loved and treated the same. Perhaps it is difficult to discern this from the outside.

(I had my best month ever - filthy lucre, hence absence)

"By happywomble Wed 04-Nov-09 17:21:30
Xenia - or you can be clever enough to realise you don't even need to work that hard you can just live in a nice area (out of london) with good schools."

Not true. If you want lakes, class, accent and best exam results then you have to go private particularly if you also look at connections and self confidence. I don't thin you get any state school year after year beating North London Collegiate where one of mine went on A level results. The best schools not just academically are all in the private sector. State whether it's grammar, religious or whatever is always second best.

Thus if you pick a bad career and earn a pittance and cannot afford fees you have done badly by your children as well as given them a bad example of what women do in a capitalist society. You are have taken yourself down to the bottom of the heap.

Rise up. Earn more. Buy places at the best schools. This is how the world works.

As for if we do this we get bad teachers... of course we do - most people with brains don't go into teaching but on the whole we get good enough teachers and that will suffice and if you've given your children good genes, attention and your interest in them as well as the advantages of their living in as reasonably wealthy family it tends to work out okay.

Haha Xenia!

You do realise, of course, that half of MN is now going to Google North London Collegiate...the other half will be discussing (in huddles) what you have been getting up to for the past month.

"most people with brains don't go into teaching".

Guess you think the people with brains head into the law or the City, Xenia? Only the financial crisis of the past 18 months tends to suggest that perhaps those guys (and it is mainly men) in the City weren't actually that bright after all...

And the world only needs so many lawyers. However much of an adornment to society they are.

Actually the state grammar school in my area beats the indpendent sector hands down( even the Telegraph says so ). Also I think you will find Oxford has announced that the biggest intake of its students are from state grammar schools, Xenia.

Well i got straight A's at a'level and a maths degree and i'm a teacher ...of course there a plenty out there with more brains, some of whom are also teachers...but brains don't necessarily make you a good teacher...some people with PHDs are brilliant at their subject but can't cope in the classroom (not everyone i hasten to add, but some)

Xenia is full of nonsense and she knows it. I'm 99.999% certain that her posts are motivated by nothing more than curiosity as to how people will react to such blinkered rubbish. An odd pastime but it takes all sorts.

It is also worth mentioning that the school with the best OFSTED, best results, best reputation locally isnt always the best for your particular child. Sometimes its a matter of which school is actually the best fit for the child which makes them thrive educationally and socially. This isnt always the school with the highest examination results. This is particularly the case if your child has special needs. This may or may not be apparent when you enter school. But often high achieving schools are so focussed on results and statistics that they arent quite as good at helping individuals achieve their own potential, which may not conform to the expected standards in a particular key stage.

I have had personal experience of this as a parent and a grandparent, but also as a teacher.

re: "you see all classes, although of course everyone is loved and treated the same" - completely not the case in my experience, even if this is the theory.

Re: "Perhaps it is difficult to discern this from the outside" - I am from a large family of churchgoers.

WARNING: This post does not answer the OP's question, but is more to wind Xenia up...

I trained on a full academic scholarship as a solicitor. I am a SAHM and home school my children (they are pre-school age at the moment, but wont be attending). I don't believe you can buy a better education.

Oh, and a large motivating factor is faith schools aren't 'faithy' enough for my tastes.

I think that the government should look at why parents have to lie to get into good schools or schools of their choice.

All children deserve to have a good education in my opinion. Soz may have gone off what everyone else is saying but it annoys me.

Totally agree Birch, the issue is not parents lying , but WHY parents in this country feel they need to lie to get their children into a school where they will learn to read and write

I live in the borough with the dubious distinction of being the place where the highest number of parents lie to get their children into a school (Richmond)

Eight primary schools (incl ours) have had to have bulge years (an extra reception class) this year to accommodate the children that have no place at all = 8 x 30 kids who would not have had school places

Don't get me started: I read today that Mr Mandelson is reviewing the Uni system so that children with no A levels can access degree courses

I understand the principal but the government really need to be asking WHY so many children are leaving school with no A levels

MM777 faith schools allocate places purely on faith not social status i.e. catchment/postcode/house value like other schools

It is actually very patronising to suggest that only the middle classes want good schools

My older DCs are at university with lots of students who have 'bought' the best education and thus their places at 'top' universities. Doesn't make them awfully good at degree level I am afraid.

I still maintain every child has the right to a decent education regardless of their parents' ability to pay or their religion.

Sniggering at "And the world only needs so many lawyers. However much of an adornment to society they are." Will store away for future reference, Edam.

You are in good form on this thread Swedes

Nice combination of funny and sensible

Although I'm not sure about your version of utopia involving shagging the local vicar.

cheers artic. Some of my best friends etc. etc. etc.

Btw, it's not true that faith schools judge children purely on their parents' faith - a huge amount of covert selection goes on, including interviewing parents and demanding donations. There have been a couple of research projects on this.