bbc news tonight - parents lying to get into schools made me wonder...

[jollygumbear]

if you rent your house out and then rent yourself in catchment and live there for a year does that make the application for the school illegal?

i won't say "wrong" as that's another thread as its all about personal opinion!

thanks

Zephirine - where do you think the ethos comes from if not leadership from the Catholic Head and other key members of staff and a practice and belief from pupils.

If you had your way swedes wouldn't have a good school of religious character to apply to.

Are you one of these people who want to abolish things that you don't want or need while your own DC goes to postcode protected high performing state schools, GS or private schools. I bet that's it??v

lifeistooshort, I am sorry if you are feeling that you have been getting stick for your views, and I am sorry for being flippant about that in my earlier post. But I genuinely can't see that anything is happening here other than a discussion about the fairest/most inclusive way for state schools to operate, with particular reference to the way children are selected for admission.

zanzibarmum, I agree that the ethos comes from all those things (although I'm not sure about pupils' belief - practice certainly but belief is hard to pin down). Where I disagree is that this cannot be achieved without giving priority to the children of practising members of that faith.

As I said before, my own school had a thoroughly Catholic ethos despite only about half of the pupils coming from Catholic backgrounds, and well under half from regular churchgoing backgrounds.

Q:I think the argument about abolishing faith schools is ridiculous and stems from envy because yes a certain proportion of faith school are good. But it doesn't seem to have occured to many of you that these schools are good exactly because they are faith schools and that if there weren't faith school they might not be so good. The reason is that through their religious ethos they are more nuturing and more supportive and trying to encourage children to want to learn and to be kind and fair to each other and also to respect certain values which nowadays are completely stamped on like authority and discipline."

I think the reason people like faith schools is because they are selective! The DCs there are from one of 2 camps:
DCs from committed faith-based families that generally believe in the group over the individual; self-discipline, community, respect for others, or:
Non faith parents who are SO committed to getting their DC that 'desirable' education that they'll GO to church for perhaps a couple of years, will attend all the fetes, do the fundraising, run the Sunday school etc- ie the type of committed parent who might also be prepared to cast aside principles to rent in the catchment of a 'good' school!

Personally I don't think faith is a good basis for state schooling, either.

Swedes - I think you need to reread the thread ...you have not really listened to any point of view or considered any situation other than your own as far as I can see. I will stop wasting my time on this thread too.

ampere - your post is very ignorant..most faith schools do not only take people of the faith many take people who live near as well..not everyone at a faith school has a church letter ok? many faith schools are voluntary controlled and don't have any church places.. please see my email higher up.

Well those are the kind of faith schools that most of us agree we like, happywomble. Unfortunately there aren't any of those where I live.

Donm't people yet realise life isn't fair? If you accept that and accept evolution, survival of the fittest and that we don't live in some communist nirvana where we are all born with an identical IQ and as pretty as each other etc etc then all these debates become easy.You do the best for your own child. If you're a clever woman you pick work which means you can afford the best schools inthe land otherwise you are lacking in your moral and financial obligations to your chidlren. Therein is the moral wrong - women who give up work or decide to work in something which pays so badly they cannot even afford schools fees.

Oh xenia, THERE you are. I've missed you. You're insane, but I've missed you still.

I think it's a crying shame that in many places, not all, CofE schools have become an exclusive club. The CofE is the established church and has a moral and legal duty to care for all souls (if asked), not merely those who are regular churchgoers.

Don't mind Catholic or Muslim or whatever schools being exclusive because they don't have the same legal role in our society.

I went to a CofE primary back in the days when they were just local schools - before this lie of parental 'choice' was invented. I'm very glad I did as it gave me a huge insight into the history, traditions, culture and politics of this country. And makes art galleries a whole lot more interesting if you actually understand the religious context of the paintings.

Oh god, who switched on the automatic-Xenia- diatribe-generator?

Xenia - or you can be clever enough to realise you don't even need to work that hard you can just live in a nice area (out of london) with good schools.

Stupid post Xenia, not to be excused because it's your "quirky little thing".

Xenia! Have missed you too.

But would argue human beings are social animals, so we have a natural inclination as well as a moral duty to consider other peoples' children as well as our own. (That'll be the CofE education coming out, then...)

I would argue very much the same as Edam, but not sure there is much point in the face of such utter tripe as is being spewed from the other side.

And considering other people is about self-interest too - if the school system is unfair as an employer you won't have the talented workforce you need, as a parent you won't have the talented teachers you need, as a consumer you won't have talented people running the businesses you need etc. etc. etc.

But Xenia, by your logic that would mean that all the "best schools in the land" were no longer so as the most able and talented teachers would have chosen careers in the city instead. Schools would be staffed by those who were unable to get more lucrative jobs rather than who were committed to teaching.

Of course edam, but this is Xenia who famously said "I don't need much infrastructure".

I know, but I have missed her! (And can't resist giving a sensible answer, even though I know some people have given up...)

Our local primary is CofE controlled. There isn't any selection on the basis of religion at all, and of course the religious teaching is multi-faith and tolerant. They do have wishy-washily Christian assemblies but don't seem to rufffle the feathers of atheists or other faiths.

I'm a bit baffled about 'controlled' and 'voluntary-aided' stautus tbh. But that is because I live in an area well-supplied with adequate schools so I've been lucky enough not to have to think much about the issue.

I don't think Mumsnet has been the same with Xenia. Welcome back!

zephirine..I think you and Edam could be accused of getting your facts very wrong on church schools...I really am not going to waste my time on replying to your offensive posts any more..

Life most certainly isn't fair, but it is fairer for some than others: those who can afford to pay for their child's schooling.

I cannot believe that people do not think it is morally wrong that a child's education should depend on their parents' ability to pay or their religious beliefs. The state should provide a decent education for every child regardless of their background, religion or wealth.

Well please put me right, womble. I am here to learn. Which facts have I got wrong?

the make up of church schools. C of E schools do not consist of only families with church letters...some have no church places...read the thread and you will see I have said this many times.

read deadworms post above...