How to get into state school after private?

[Fossie]

I have taken my 2 elder children (girls) out of their private school after it was taken over and has changed so much we no longer want to continue there. We have a son at private school and a 2 year old. I want to find a state school for my elder two, keep my son where he is and get my youngest into the same school as elder two. But, all the decent schools have no places. We are not even top of a waiting list for our closest school and they have been on that waiting list for 10 months. The council say we have to find a school ourselves and can recommend ones with places but these are either far way or poor or both. I am now home educating. How can we get them into a good school? Hope someone has some good ideas out there.

But if that was what Ken Baker thought people wanted he was wrong. People don't want choice. They just want what they want for their kids.

I have yet to hear any rhetoric from a political party which doesn't include the phrase "having choice" and actually mean "having money".

(As an aside, so some people still refer to staff training days as Baker Days? I know we do!)

so right UD

My children's school is ..... wait for it, shield your eyes if your of a nervous disposition, a "satisfactory" school.

It is a brilliant school though. My children both got level 3's in their KS2 sats and were in no way the only ones. My ds got all level 5's at the end of year 5 (still wasn't the only one). This is a school in a surestart designated area of deprivation. The top end of the school is undersubscribed because of the dire high school feeder. Most people move into a better catchment for high school but these are all so oversubscribed now that you have no guarantee to get in. The local high school has suffered because of it.

"I have yet to hear any rhetoric from a political party which doesn't include the phrase "having choice" and actually mean "having money"." I totally agree UD the only choice for us to get into a "better" high school is whether to spend £75,000+ on a smaller house with no garden or go private. These are not choices for us.

my point is that in my lifetime, early 40's, I have seen 3 educational systems, experienced the first 2 myself firsthand and going through the third with my dc: grammars with 2ndry moderns, comprehensive system with no choice of school and comprehensive system with choice of school. None of them have been perfect and whatever system was in place there has always been widespread criticism of it with some people thinking there is a much better solution we have'nt thought of yet. "Yes people want what they want for their kids" so for the greater good of society can we let parents do whatever they can to play the system and get the best school for their dc?. My experience would have me opt for no.2 a fully comprehensive system which streams for all subjects and where catchment areas include equal nos of each socioeconomic group. And before people talk about kids being made to do + 1hour journeys to school at my school no-one had more than a 30 minute walk/15 minute bus ride from door to door.

its good to see that your dds are enjoying being home educated- doesn't seem rash or illogical decision on your part at all.

hope you find a way through the maze soon and find something that fits with your girls and you!

best wishes and good luck

This article might be of interest OP? Would never have occured to me to get lawyers onto an appeal, but apparently lots do, so could try this? They specifically ref to ex-indie pupils moving into state.Are you in Croydon? Seems slightly higher chance of appeal success there, in Richmond and Barnet than elsewhere.

Thanks for that MrsG. We have put ourselves on 3 more waiting lists though noone seems very hopeful there will a place for us. Actually thinking of moving out of Croydon next year if we are no further ahead. Am still debating the appeal route. When I suggested that I was going to appeal to school we liked best on the grounds it was our nearest school and we had no school place anywhere I was told that there are others on their lists in the same position! Where are all these 'lost' children? At least I feel confident at home schooling - not everyone does.

Fossie, if you are going to move I would suggest moving into Bromley - specifically into the catchment area for the Langley Park secondary schools (you need to be within a mile of the schools to get in).

If you move to West Wickham you could be in catchment for Oak Lodge and Hawes Down primary schools. The former doesn't often have vacancies but the latter does - I know quite a few children there and it is highly rated.

The sense of entitlement from parents of formerly independently educated children who now have to wing it in the state system like 93% of the population staggers me.

From that article

"Anita Chopra, a partner at Fleet Street-based Match Solicitors, said : "Parents are a lot more aware of their rights. I have had more calls when parents have been considering their applications, just asking for advice and, if they get refused, what preparation they should do." For a typical appeal she charges between £1,500 and £2,000 plus VAT, but more complex cases can cost up to £2,500 plus VAT.

Matt Richards, senior partner at Schoolappeals.com, said his firm dealt with 250 cases requiring intensive coaching or representation at appeal hearings this year, typically involving parents who could no longer afford the private sector."

These parents make me want to puke. They can no longer afford to buy advantage in the private sector so they throw their weight around in the state sector. Therefore, those who live in the catchment area but are without the financial resources to bully, bribe and dictate, get pushed aside by those who buy advantages for their off-spring without shame.

'Bully, bribe and dictate'? This is legal representation at a hearing, whcih will be decided on its merits according to rules. Not everyone has the confidence or ability that many mumsnetters have to be able to speak coherently in front of an intimidating panel for something as vital as their child's schooling.
Are defendants who are represented in any court 'bullying bribing and dictating' by having legal representation to articlate their case coherently?

But a school admissions appeal hearing isn't a legal court. And whereas those on low incomes would have access to legal aid/help in a court of law, they wouldn't get such help for a school admissions panel.

Far as I can see only one Croydon school got 0% level 5. All the remaining 74 schools got level 5's.

My kids go to a school that I'm sure people think is a 'poor' school and it is not perfect but it is a lot lot better than people give it credit for. One of my ds's classmates moved to another area ( at great expense) to go to a 'better' school and we recently met the mum at a party. She couldn't wait to make a beeline to me to ask me how ds had done in his end of year SATs (year4). How pissed was she when DS had done much better than her dd particularly in maths cos after all her dd was in the 'better' school. They had been level the previous year.

As someone below said they tend to set the kids in schools with challenges. In year 5 and 6 the kids at my kid's school are set for maths and it works well. Also we have the most fantastic teachers as the head makes sure that a school like ours with lots of challenges needs the best teachers. Don't judge a book by the cover.

Meant to add a link www.dcsf.gov.uk/cgi-bin/performancetables/group_08.pl?Mode=Z&No=306&Base=p&Type=LA&Begin=s&Phase=p&Y ear=08&F=1&L=50 which lists all the schools in Croydob.

Having sent mine to an ofstead outstanding school and moved them out into private despite being on the bones of our arses financially I would say two things.
Firstly you put them into private education you should sell the family silver, down size anything to get your girls through to KS3 at least, finish what you've started.
If you must pull them out then don't take any notice of ofstead, we will put any of our future children in the 4th rated school in our area because it's full of normal kids in a nice setting and that's my only criteria, any gaps I'll fill in at home.

Thanks for link drosophila. Just to say MillyMollyMoo, our girls school closed. We had intended selling the family silver to keep them in the same great school - but it closed. Now that we have to look again, I am not so sure I want the financial sacrifice of private education again. You learn as you go on through life and though I liked the small class sizes of the private school there was not so much to be said for the extra we were supposedly paying for. Everything we thought we might get - such as ballet lessons in school (very helpful if you have 4 kids to ferry around) were all extra costs anyway. Now that I am home-schooling I can pay for those things (as I know many do after school) and schedule them during the 'school day' which is great for taking the stress out of term-time. I also don't set homework so that is another time saver. Despite the big plug here for home-schooling, I do think they would do well to be in a school environment, eventually, to mix with more than their usual friends and learn how to cope with other social situations. I am concerned that I will not be able to do that for another 3/4 years when they will reach secondary school age. I think of appealing for a school place because I think the authority should provide them. I have not tried every school but I am tempted to see if any school at all has any places within say 2 miles of home because I think they may not. Yes, Spokette, I feel entitled to a school place. I live here, I pay my taxes here, if the LA provided enough places for (all) the number of children living here using our money then we would probably be fine. I see an appeal (with legal help if necessary) as a way of putting pressure on the LA to sort out the lack of school places. The last-minute haste of putting 7 extra Reception classes in 7 of our local schools to cope with the 200+ unplaced children of that age group this Septemeber highlights the problems and lack of planning we have in this borough. Maybe then there will be some choice for those entering the school system in Croydon whether from the private sector or just from another area.

Well of course move house is the traditional solution if you have the cash for it

I think you're mad, make your life easy and find another private school because your girls will be in for a bloody shock when they start state school.

Did the school close or was it merged? Curious as to whether they were in OP or CH?

LadyMuck, they were CH so I see the 'merger' as the end of their school. I don't think that it was not meant to be that way but the old CH has gone. They have kept the motto somewhere but that is all there is left of the school.

I'm going to say something harsh. We have two children at private school and one is transferring into senior school next year. He has a place at a boarding school and it is hugely expensive for one let alone two.

Both my husband and I work full time, I have always worked and we are able to afford the school fees however you have chosen to have FOUR children. Your choice - but we realised that for us to be able to go down the private route we had to stop at two. We simply couldnt afford to have another child and go down the private route. Did you not think just how much all of this was going to cost you. Now you are wanting to bypass the system, have your first choice school 'squeeze' you in etc. It is not going to happen and in imho you need to think again.

There are a number of other options you have

1. Get a better paid job
2. Cash in some equity in your house.
3. Choose which of your children are going to go to which type of school and accept that you wont be able to send all four of them.

Fossie, no advice I'm afraid but I'm wondering if I misread/misunderstood one of your posts. Was it really £16k pa for TWO DC? Surely that is each? My DS's school is £16k for 2 terms

School fees vary a great deal, thge most expensive locally to us is £7k a year.
And you don't need to pay that much, we asked around and got a 75% sibling discount.
Mine went from state to private and it's been a struggle one term in however I cannot imagine any of the children at my childrens private school coping with the state system, it is so different, they will be so far ahead and the OP will not be happy at all in my opinion.

mumofsatan - this is at preprep/prep stage. Not many London day prepreps are £24k pa! I assume that you are paying for senior school?

Having reread your earlier posts in the light of your later posts I'm guessing that you would be trying to apply for St Ps. If you do appeal be aware that the school are trying to ensure that appeals are not successful if at all possible. I suspect that my friends were physically closer to St Ps and the "catchment" is exceeding small when these places come up.

Certainly I have friends living within spitting distance of EC station who have got into Ridgeway. There also seems to be a steady trickle of Atwood/Gresham/Ridgeway pupils into the private sector. Which religion box do you check? I know that Christchurch in Purley have recently had some spaces. Which year is your dd in? Trinity/Whitgift both have a Year 6 intake which also means that there are more spaces at Year 6 (which will then get siblings to the front of the queue).