How to get into state school after private?

[Fossie]

I have taken my 2 elder children (girls) out of their private school after it was taken over and has changed so much we no longer want to continue there. We have a son at private school and a 2 year old. I want to find a state school for my elder two, keep my son where he is and get my youngest into the same school as elder two. But, all the decent schools have no places. We are not even top of a waiting list for our closest school and they have been on that waiting list for 10 months. The council say we have to find a school ourselves and can recommend ones with places but these are either far way or poor or both. I am now home educating. How can we get them into a good school? Hope someone has some good ideas out there.

Girls have been taken out of private as school has changed so much. Son school is still good. It was the right decision at the time and I need not spend the time going into all the details about that. If you move house to a new area you are saying you must must be willing to risk your children not getting into a school anywhere near ok or close to where you live? Has noone any experience of 'beating the system' in any way? I know the situation is not great but I am looking for people, perhaps in council postions, who might have some advice.

Good grief. "Beating the system?" What's that all about? You come across as having a sense of entitlement which is not very endearing.

No one working for a council is going to help you beat the system. It doesn't work that way.

Basically you go where there is a space - and that will often be the school that is least popular
I can tell you about appealing:
basically the school argues that giving your child a place is detrimental to the pupils already there.
Your counterargument is that the detrimental effect of not getting the place at that particular school outweighs that.
Fewer than a third of appeals succeed.
You cannot argue that you need a place at a particular school just because it has better results.
You need to be more imaginative.

Where do your dd's friends go?
If they are at the 'good' school then you can argue that dd will be traumatised by attending a school where she knows no one.

We moved 2 years ago, and you have to go where there are spaces. I would be surprised if you can 'beat the system' as you so put it!

Sorry, but you have chosen to take your DCs out of private school after the start of the academic year. You are in the same position as those who have moved house mid-year. You are not entitled to a place in what you consider to be the "better" schools simply because your DCs have been educated in the private sector thus far.

Suck it up.

And a lot of children at my ds's state primary, which I think is wonderful but I am sure you would thing "poor" got 3 3s at KS1 SATS. It's good - but not exceptional.

What exactly do you want people to say?

She wants people to say "oh, I see you are a special person. Nudge-nudge, masonic handshake, say no more. Here is the secret key to getting into the TOP state primaries."

I suppose I am just sad that there are such poor schools out there. When I was a child we just went to our nearest school (and I would be happy for that now) and we didn't think about a choice in these things. We don't have a choice and I am angry that the idea of choice is being suggested at every turn when it is not the case. I will continue to home educate as this is the only real choice in our case. I appreciate that those who think we are spoilt brats about this have little sympathy. I think we should fight for our children's future and not let this silly idea of choice fool us into thinking that what we have now is better than what we ourselves grew up with.

I have to support what others are saying about level 5 SATS. I taught in a school that took students from what must be some of the worst primaries in the country. We could still create a top set of kids with level 5s across all their SATS.

I do find it a little ironic that msny people say they choose private for smaller classes but now you want state primaries tp break the 30 rule so they can fit your child in.

There is no way of beating the system I say that as a teacher who moved her dd schools and was told by the education authority in which she about to start teaching that they could not offer her a school place anywhere near where she was going to live. I also teach in a very good secondary that I would love my dd to attend but again I know that will not happen.

What on earth made you think you have any choice?

Didn't you read the GB webchat all spin and soundbites?

Have you spent the last 10 years asleep

(oh and yes I said lots of people round here didn't get their child into a school near where they live - some think they were lucky ) some got no school and yes LA did tell them it was their responsibility to ind somewhere

You are right about one thing, Fossie, "choice" is sold to people as something of a leveller and it isn't.

People don't want choice. They just want the thing they want. Which is exactly what Martin Lewis (from moneysavingexpert.com) said today on the radio about buying watches on the internet.

But it is the same for everyone and you have to realise that some people started thinking about this a while ago and got in earlier.

But the system is incredibly unfair to people who move house or who, like this person, move out of the private sector. They pay their taxes and should have an equal shot at a good school as anyone else.

We were out of the country when we should have applied for reception for dd1 and we were basically shoved to back of queue. How unfair is that?! I know people who won't move for work because of not being able to get kids into school.

In the US, you're zoned for a school adn that's the school you go to. End of story. If you buy a house in an area, or if you live in an area and take your kids out of private school then you send your kids to that school. They DO hold places for children moving! It's not a terrible thing!! The system here is awful.

The Local Authority has a duty of care to educate your child within the authority. Somebody questioned this on another thread once and so I linked to here

petally loads of people have no shot at a good school

suppose your 'zoned' school is rubbish?

UD we're right on edge of LA the schools with places would have required over 1 hr in one direction, then back to another place for older dc then 45 minutes down to work and then the whole thing in reverse at the end of the day.

None of the schools in question had a breakfast club from what I can recall presumably we would just have had to choose which dc to leave outside the gate for over an hour each day!

Tell us about the "poor" schools you have been offered. What makes you think they are "poor'?

I am in a "council position", sort of. I sit on school admission appeal panels.

Applying for a place after the start of the school year doesn't mean that you automatically go to the top of the waiting list for the school you prefer. Your place on the waiting list will have been determined by how closely you fit the school's admissions criteria. If you're contemplating submitting an appeal, you need to demonstrate that the school has mis-applied those criteria.

There will probably never be completely free "choice" over schools, because there will probably always be schools which are over-subscribed and some people will go away disappointed. The current system offers parents the opportunity to express a preference.

The admissions/appeals system may not be perfect, but it does its utmost to treat everybody fairly. For everyone who cheats the system (by, for example, lying about their address) someone else somewhere loses out.

I am in a "council position", sort of. I sit on school admission appeal panels.

Applying for a place after the start of the school year doesn't mean that you automatically go to the top of the waiting list for the school you prefer. Your place on the waiting list will have been determined by how closely you fit the school's admissions criteria. If you're contemplating submitting an appeal, you need to demonstrate that the school has mis-applied those criteria.

There will probably never be completely free "choice" over schools, because there will probably always be schools which are over-subscribed and some people will go away disappointed. The current system offers parents the opportunity to express a preference.

The admissions/appeals system may not be perfect, but it does its utmost to treat everybody fairly. For everyone who cheats the system (by, for example, lying about their address) someone else somewhere loses out.

Petelly - Assuming that all LEAs deal with late applications in the same way as this one, then it's probably about as fair as it can get. Yes, places in the most popular schools tend to be filled on the initial round - so late applicants are likely to go onto the waiting list rather than get a place - but they go onto the waiting list according to where they are on the admissions criteria and so they may well leapfrog children who applied on time.

I really don't see how it could be done any differently - schools can't afford (in any sense) to run with empty places just in case someone turns up who wants them. And there has to be some cut-off date for applications so that LEAs can get on with the business of filling places. Most people manage to get their applications in on time - the number of people who urgently need to move house mid-school year is pretty small.

1dilemma:

Either way you can get stuck with a bad school - but at least you won't have to drive past 5 schools that are closer to your house to get to it and the school will be embedded into the local community. You also don't have the angst and worry with school applications. If you don't want to go to that school, you can always move but at least you know which school district you are in and which school you are zoned for.

We are being punished (de facto) for having lived abroad. We now have to drive our dd two miles to school (we live in London so two miles is a lot) to a school we would never have chosen. Not one child from our local area goes to that school which is in a different borough. We didn't get our first, second, third or even tenth choice of school. As someone who has lost out big time, I think the system sucks. If any of my expat British friends with children of school age ask me about moving to the UK, I tell them no unless they can afford private.

MBW:

Of course it can be run differently. I thought the system worked just fine in the US.

When all the local schools are full, what are you left with if you COULDN'T apply on time?? It's like you get a choice if you were LUCKY enough to be in the right place at the right time. If not, too bad so sad, you get zero choice whatsoever and we'll just stick you wherever there happens to be a place, even if that means it's the other side of the borough.