Following Ed Balls webchat, thread for parents of summer born babies

[GeraldineMumsnet]

We said we'd start this thread, as so many of you expressed an opinion on the Ed Balls webchat thread about summer-born babies and starting school.

BTW, this is a recent thread in media requests on a linked topic.

Will nip over to webchat thread and link to this.

MNHQ

The new compromise in my LEA is that the Council will allow year-deferment for summer-borns but the parent needs the backing of a professional eg speech therapist/paediatrician.

If Sir Jim Rose would come on here, perhaps he would at least agree to that. Small steps and all that.

Parents of prem babies should certainly be given the choice about start dates. Some of the stories on here are heart breaking. In the last 10 years neonatal advances have allowed children at 24 weeks of pregnancy. Surely these children have had such a tough start that no one would begrudge them the chance to defer.

Sorry - allowed children to survive at 24 weeks of pregnancy. Reminds myself to preview.

My son was four on the 17th August this year and he is no way ready to go to school. He is bright academically but on an emotional level he is too immature. We did look at schools and found a lovely, small one where my next door neighbour works so we thought if we have to send him, we'll send him there. Due to the allocation system of school places he didn't get a place at our LOCAL school because it had such a good OFSTED inspection, they were massively oversubscribed and had to cut the catchment area in half and we fell just outside of it. He got allocated a school that just isn't right for him.

As a consequence we have not sent him and we are aware that, if we choose to send him, he will have to go into year 1 in September 2010 (2 weeks after he turns five) and of course we are not happy about him missing year R. It is so silly that he cannot have the option of going into year R.

This is not a decsion we are taking light heartedly and I am not anti school as we have a happy 10 year old daughther at school (who was born in March - perfect time of year for loads of reasons!)

I work in FE and I am an SEN governor at my daughter's school. The facts are there to be seen, the stats are there (I know how the government love stats!) a large percentage of SEN children are Summer born boys because our rigid education system does not work for them on so many levels.

If I do not think he can cope with going straight into year 1 we will home educate him and make the sacrifices necessary (which would be considerable in terms of me needing to stop work and our income dropping considerably)but for the first time in my life I believe so passionately that the current system is wrong and we will do what we have to do.

As a primary (junior) teacher I struggle with the mismatch I see between the research evidence I see here and my personal experience over 10yrs. I've tried both ways: making a birthday list to be sure I am not penalising younger children, and resolutely ignoring any birthdate information so I base assessment (academic & social) on the child's needs not my own assumptions. Neither stood out as a winner.

In my last class the most immature boy was a Sept birthday, the most mature 2(stunners academic and socially) were Feb & July birthdays. The July one was a slower thinker, but more analytical. My SEN list included children born in Sept right through to June.

That pattern wasn't unusual AT ALL. Although I have had kids with summer birthdays who were notable less mature than older ones in the same year group, the opposite has also been true. In the years when I familiarised myself with their birthdates, my top groups and bottom groups both had a full range of ages. You deal with them as they are, not as you think some standardised scale demands they should be.

The research might show a pattern over large numbers of children, but it doesn't help you know what is right for YOUR child. (or, as a teacher, the children in your class...). Makes me mad - they aren't barcodes!

With my child (1 week late already - and no, we didn't plan it - after 3 years, 3 losses, ANY birthdate would do!) I hope any teachers will look at HIM, not his birthdate. And I am leaning towards homeschooling for the 1st couple of years to avoid our family having to conform to an imposed pace of development in those crucial early years...

Mumsnet HQ - would you make contact with Sir Jim on this issue please? And perhaps let Ed Balls know you are doing so and what Sir Jim's response is.

Ditto

Have name changed for this. Would like to pick up on the fact that it is a 'middle class worry'. Maybe it is. I was concerned enough about having an August born child to actually delay TTC until my due date would be October. Was lucky enough to get pregnant fairly soon so I have an autumn born son. (Obviously I was hoping the child would not be too premature). I am not certain what I would have done if we had not fallen pregnant for 9 months or so and so due dates could have been July - August but because I have time on my side it is not inconceivable we would have stopped TTC at that point for a few months. Now I know I am very lucky, and obviously lots of circumstances where you would take into account tons of other factors when TTC. But I am sure I am not alone. But the parents who do this are (probably) the ones who will actually be better able to support their children through whatever eductational experience they have simply because they see it as so important. So this as well is distorting the school spectrum of entrants, making it even worse for summer borns. If you took it to the extreme, classes would be full of Sept - Dec born children who had reached full term, and July and August children who were born prematurely. I am guilty but will probably do it again.

I am impressed that you considered all this when you were TTC! It has to be said if we had planned as well as you we wouldn't now be in this position - having said that I have planned for things all my life and it hardly ever works out the way I had intended it to!

Right, then. What are we all going to do about it?

I'm a great believer in 'don't get angry, get organised'.

I think we can probably drum up enough support here for a campaign, or is there one already?

VW you are quite right. Do you want to prod MNHQ again?

I shall try shouting

"GERALDINE, LOOK AT THIS THREAD!"

Hi all, we'll certainly look into it. Thanks for the request.

I prodded.

Gentleness, of course each child is an individual but the aggregate data DOES show an overall effect, whether or not you see it. Perhaps you are a particularly good and sensitive teacher?

But isn't the point exactly that each child IS different, and currently parents have no proper say over how this is managed on school entry?

DD is only 2 (late July born) so haven't yet had to face this issue but it is something that I've been thinking about already. At the moment she goes to nursery 2 days a week and absolutely loves it; as she gets older we'll gradually increase the nursery time. Although she's bright (certainly well ahead on all the language/communication milestones) I don't yet know how she'll be in terms of school readiness.

I don't know all the ins & outs of funding, but (if that wasn't an issue) it seems to me a bit of a no-brainer, given the choice between staying an extra year in nursery, where she'll have all her friends, in a small group, with high staffing ratio, where they're learning to read & write etc as well as having fun - and going to a new school, when only just age 4, to a large class with fewer teachers/staff.

I may feel differently about it when the time comes, but surely that's the point that so many of you have very eloquently made - that there should be flexibility.

FWIW, I'm late June born, went to school the Sept after my 5th bday (into Yr 1, not reception) and was about 4th youngest in my year throughout primary school. I don't think I suffered adversely because of it, and was in fact glad of the fact when I ended up retaking A levels and going to Uni a year later than many of my friends (but was still not much older than those who'd gone straight from school).

However, as others have said, birth date may not be an issue for some, but the stats clearly show that for many it is a factor in settling in/getting on well at school (socially and academically) so it should be taken seriously.

So. Does the LEA have any leeway? Can they influence decisions locally?

Is there a campaign to be made there?

And what is the

My eldest has just started in Reception, he was only 4 on 17th August, but he isn't the youngest - one of his little friends there is 26th August. My son is quite a 'young' 4 as well, and has delayed speech development too. But I have no concerns - because I have no ambitions for him! SHOCK HORROR!!!!!!! Myself and my husband just want our boys to go to school and enjoy it (which he does so far!) - and hopefully learn something. If they do well and actually have a career goal in mind, we'll support them, of course! But if they're not ambitious and just want to pootle along, then why not? The world needs pootlers to get the jobs done that the clever people are too busy to do themselves, but still need doing nontheless! So there!

Gentleness I dont think anyone is saying that all summer born children are impacted by their DOB, in fact my Dt1 would have not benefited from starting a year later although as he was premature he should have done. DT2 is on the other hand a different story. You said that your most immature child was a september birthday, but think of how far behind he would have been if he had been born a few weeks earlier and had to go to school a whole year earlier. I know the opposite applies also but its a choice that people are looking for ie to send your child if ready but have the opportunity to defer if not.

Moue of distaste @ planningwaytoomuch's eugenicist approach to conception.

Diziet - I too want my son to go to school and enjoy it and I think sending him when he is not ready for it may put him off learning and thats the last thing anyone wants for their child surely?! I haven't even thought about a career for him or whether he is going to be a pootler! The whole point about this issue is that parents know their children best and if the parent feels their Summer born child is not ready then the authorities should respect that and have flexibility within their system. There will, as a result, be some parents who send their child when they are just four and some who will send them when they are just five - thats all!
VW - I would love to take somebody on about this because the current system is ridiculous. I am going to look into the oppositions view on this and will get back to you all

I have found this thread really interesting. I posted earlier about my DS who is an end of August baby and how worried I was. I have been thinking about it a lot and feel that he may actually be ready for school when it is time to go and that maybe he shouldn't be held back even if it were an option.
BUT I would still like to have the option and to have some input from others (nursery staff etc) about whether he is ready. I would not necessarily hold him back simply to stop him being the youngest or on the assumption that he will be behind everyone else, but if he is to be the youngest in the year I would like to know it is the correct choice for him.
But then hearing about Ed Balls planning on cutting £2bn from the education budget I wonder if New Labour value education and our children at all.

My ds is an end of August birthday and has justed started school. So he is young and also I think immature for his age a double disadvantage. Socially he is doing fine but doesn't yet have the fine motor skills necesssary for writing or the interest in learning to read. I wouldn't hold him back as I think starting in year 1 with older children who have already had a year of schooling would be the worst thing for him. IMO there should be the option of letting them start the reception year when they are ready to learn. He is aware that he is less able than other children and despite the very best efforts of his teacher to hold back on any type of pressure or expectations feels very anxious about this. It does make me feel sad for him as the performance anxiety just makes everything much worse.

"So. Does the LEA have any leeway? Can they influence decisions locally?"

Yes, there has been variety between different LEAs. They have to educate from 5 as you know. There are some LEAs where they don't even have a reception year! And then there are Leeds and Bradford where, until Jim Rose's report, every child whose 4th birthday fell in the summer term could be deferred to start reception in the September after they turned five. Bradford (don't know about Leeds) paid for the extra nursery year. But Jim Rose's report has changed that for Bradford although they have kept an exception for special needs. Re the Tories - yes it was Conservative Councillors who supported the right to choose thing within Bradford though I don't know if they initiated it.

I'm not sure what has happened in Leeds following the rose report but you could find out online.

I have often wondered about the legality of the "put them straight into Year 1 as a punishment" policy. If the Education Act says your child must be educated from 5, is there a human rights angle on them being forced into a year group where the other children have learnt to read and write already? Don't know.

Mimmum - Reading your thoughts makes me feel a bit sad for you and your boy. Don't get me wrong I am not saying he should or shouldn't go I just get bloody frustrated with the rigidity of the system. What harm would it do to anyone for you to have more say and maybe send him at Xmas for example?

Tingler - Interesting point about making them go into year 1. I think making the child go into year 1 instead of letting them go into YR is outrageous and unnecessary - I mean I can't see what the problem is in allowing the flexibility - it's all about helping the child isn't it?!

I am going to contact our MP (who is conservative) and get some advice.

This thread is really supportive - thank you

please let us know what your MP says. We have a lovely Labour MP and I think (I hope) she would hate to think of the Tories stealing a march on her.

If several of us contacted our MPs that would make a difference.