Can someone please explain this? Teacher training question.

[bottersnike]

Dh has been considering training as a teacher for some time (ex-army), SAHD at the moment, working part-time as self-employed painter and sculptor.
He has been advised that he would not be granted a GTP place ( our local primary would be more than happy to support him ) because he "only" has a 3rd class degree.
My feelings about this:

1. His degree was 14 years ago.
2. He has done an awful lot since then, including a post-grad HR qualification.
3. He'd be a great primary school teacher.

How else can he get into teaching, if the traditional routes will be barred to him just because he was too busy courting (!) me 14 years ago to do any work?
Any suggestions appreciated.

the problem is that primary places are very competitive and 2:2 or above is often a requirement

how would he feel about secondary? much more scope there

Might be worth checking with more than one GTP provider.

Locally, we have 2 courses via universities and one via a consortium of the local education authority and some training schools. They definitely didn't have the same entrance criteria for what I did.

It seems a little narrow minded to have a course which is insisting on a 2:2 or higher when the whole point of GTP is for professionals who have a degree AND lots of life experience to be able to change careers.

Good luck to him!

sorry had to dash off - I agree insisting on 2:2 is silly for GTP, secondary providers often don't (I don't for the courses I run!) has he actually approached providers directly? Most would be happy to talk to him about their requirements

Thanks for the answers. Yes, dh spoke to our local GTP provider, and they said he wouldn't be considered without at least a 2:2, regardless of whether he was interested in primary or secondary.
Humph.
There is only one provider in our area. The local college is massively oversubscribed for the PGCE places, so we might try a SCITT course next..
I thought the govt. was really keen for professionals to re-train as teachers!

How infuriating! Have you/your dh looked at the Open University courses? He might be able to fit that around SAHD/partime work.

TBH we don't need anymore Primary Teachers there is no shortage of them at all. In fact many Primary NQTs really struggle to find work.

I have to say I am very glad that they don't accept anyone with a third. In my view Primary Teaching and Secondary Teaching should both have far more rigorous academic criteria.

Goodnes London is this the royal we?

We as in the state, society and the education system.

I had people on my courses last year, amongst them were a girl with a first in physics and a lad with a 3rd in psychology, both training to teach secondary science...the one with the first in physics is still job hunting, a year on, in a climate of massive shortages in physics teaching. Academic qualifications are not the only thing that matters and ITT providers (and londonone) should recognise that.

I am not in any way saying they are the only thing but when training courses are oversubscribed as Primary training courses are then there is no reason to not set the academic bar a bit higher. Sure you can have a first and be a crap teacher or you can have a third and be a great teacher but wouldn't it be better to have great teachers who also have great academic credentials.

He will really struggle to get a job with a 3rd class degree whether in primary or secondary. He would certainly not get a job in an academic school who look for 1sts and 2:1s. If he wanted to go into secondary it would be in a very tough school where no one else wanted to teach.

TBH I think he may have to either redo his degree or consider another career.

londonone I agree, it would be great if all teachers had good degrees and the other qualities too. I suspect that teaching will need to be more financially attractive for that to become the case. In the meantime, we take the best we can find.

bottersnike where in the country are you? That will make a big difference for potential recruitment. I have never come across a trainee who has tried and failed to get a job in my area, apart from the first class physicist, yet we regularly take academically underqualified people onto our courses.

Part of being a teacher is being an academic role model, we need teachers with excellent academic records/

Even if he got a place there could be further complications

A few people fot PGCE secondary places from my Uni year but were then refused funding as it is allocated (the bursary) by Uni who used degree class as a criteria; if you didn't have a 2:1 you could forget it, frankly.

However that course did say no 2;2 class degree places at all,yet were awarding them.

As an adult he may find it worth looking at study as undergrad again if he can afford it- part time, OU? I know its a hardship (I only graduated last year, DH off this and both of us for following 2 years- eeeeek) but well worth a consideration. I found study much more rewarding as an adult anyhow.

One thing that would be in his favour if he does that is his amlesness LOL, friends whoa re male were offered places in rpeference to females as there is a recognised shortage of amle primary teachers.

maleness

Sorry have an eye infection so typing even worse than usual

Did the physicist actually pass her PGCE course duckyfuzz? Because I can't imagine how bad you would have to be to not get a job as a physics teacher TBH. I'm teaching physics ATM and I'm a biologist. And psychologist. Just can't find 'em.

Is it the fact that 2:2s aren't honours degrees? A very good TA at our school who we were willing to support with his GTP has been refused a place at our local provider today as he didn't have an Honours degree - and I've been at interviews a Uni recently where they used this as a stipulation.

That's surprising about the funding peachy as the TDA attaches no degree class criteria to the bursaries they allocate! the TDA doesn't specify a degree class for course access either, it is up to the institution to use their discretion.

TSAP I think students do need good academic role models, but I think they need good teachers even more.

Yes she did pass, she was a good trainee but is appalling in interviews - fidgety, nervous, timid, comes across very badly despite support given for interview prep! She seems as though she wouldn't stand a chance in class (her classroom management was her only 'weakness' as a trainee and even then it was good enough). She is getting interviews (I know, I'm still writing the refs!) but not getting appointed, poor thing

They need both ducky, and a good school will get both. So by going into teaching with 1 2:2 or lower you will mainly get jobs there is no competition for.

Apaprenlty they ahd more palces on their course than bursaries available so thats the criteria they set; they also refused one lady some on the absis she ahd ASD kids and thats being 'discussed' at A Higher Level atm.

2:" doesnt necesarily eman no honeous, mine is 2:1 but every grad from our degree got honours, if you didnt have enough odules overall you got a degree without honours- i think on another thread a while abck though we found it varies

Whether a degree is honours or not relates to the number of credits you pass. A non-honours degree is 300 credits, an honours degree requires more. All classified degrees will be honours degrees.

It might be worth investigating redoing some or all of the degree, but unfortunately first degrees do count for a lot no matter how many post-grad qualifications someone has. The Civil Service won't accept less than a 2.i even with a PhD.

When I had my interview my school made clear they were dissapointed that I did not have a first and it was only because of my references and strengths elsewhere that I got the job and the fact I was on track for a first in my second degree.

But there's plenty of those that need to be filled twinset. Massive shortage of science teachers round our way.

Twinset, you know that's not the norm. You are now working in a pretty atypical school, and perhaps your subject area is different to mine, but if all schools demanded firsts then no-one would actually get an education.