Can someone please explain this? Teacher training question.

[bottersnike]

Dh has been considering training as a teacher for some time (ex-army), SAHD at the moment, working part-time as self-employed painter and sculptor.
He has been advised that he would not be granted a GTP place ( our local primary would be more than happy to support him ) because he "only" has a 3rd class degree.
My feelings about this:

1. His degree was 14 years ago.
2. He has done an awful lot since then, including a post-grad HR qualification.
3. He'd be a great primary school teacher.

How else can he get into teaching, if the traditional routes will be barred to him just because he was too busy courting (!) me 14 years ago to do any work?
Any suggestions appreciated.

It always does seem to be science and maths, are al of your students getting jobs. Many of ours are finding it hard, although I am noticing a decline generally in the standards of student teachers over the past few years.

TSAP you must work in a particularly privileged area (schools wise, not money wise, although the 2 often go together ime!) I have never knowingly had my degree considered and certainly where I work we are glad to get applicants, never mind ones with firsts (it is an outstanding secondary, with consistent GCSE results around 90%)

We have advertised for three science jobs in the last year. We had four applications in total. Four. Now we are a national challenge school, and life is not a bed of roses, but four...

I do work in a very good school ( I have served my time in the hard ones), it may be that another candidate had a first that they were considering. I was quizzed on the contents of my degree and subject specialisms as I teach quite a few top sets and an a level group. The department had a specialism gap they wanted to fill.

I have also taught in a school that hired anyone who could fill in the application form, packed with teachers with 2:2 and lower and it was not great. Not saying that was the only factor but it was one, it alsi significantly was only 11-16.

When I applied for my previous RE post I was the only applicant, the job had been advertised previously over a timespan of about 3 years with no luck and in the end they had to appoint a no specialist.

All teh schools back home are 1--16, just as a muse....

IN fairness lots of people I would never consier for teaching went on to study it last year

Almost all alsted about a week though LOL, only the obvious candidate is still there- the course is very selective in itself.

Perhaps it depends on where you train as well- our Uni has links with a training college in the same 'group' and there is a lot of interaction in the last year, although I oculdnst stufy there (cant speak Welsh) so would need to border hop, thankfully Gloucester seemed interested

frAKKin - the civil service, like most employers, will accept a masters or PhD as a substitute for a 2:1 [civil servant fast streamer with a 2:2!]. Some require 2:2 plus higher degree though.

Could MrSnike do a Masters?

FM we had similiar levels of application for maths, science and mfl posts recently, geography and perception have a lot to do with it! Having said that, we place trainees in national challenge schools and on the whole they enjoy it and many go on to get jobs with them, which they prob wouldn't have applied for if they hadn't been in on placement

I know it is not the norm but I have not worked for a school that has not wanted a 2:1 or 1st. I have taught a level in 3 of my 4 schools and have been quizzed about my degree and areas of specialism. All 3 were popular over subscribed schools but not apart from the one I am in now nothing out of the ordinary.

We are competing with a grammar which is significant,

Actually yes, I was told that the ASD MA I was accepted for would buy me a palce on any Primary course if I changed my mind about secondary, as it was regarded more highly. Lecturer also told me that arond 50% of the applicants to do a primary PGCE that year did have a post grad qual, and he thought it would be standard within 2 decades

sorry have a headace and am not feeling great that was an awfully typed post but I think you know what I mean. Am off for a powernap.

Most palces on GTTR website ask for a 2:1 as the norm

How long ago were you accepted to fast-track though? That certainly wasn't the case for GCHQ and the FCO last year and I know 1 person from my course who was 'provisionally accepted' providing he got a 2.i. He didn't - missed it by a tiny margin - and didn't get on, asked if they'd consider him if he did a higher degree and they said that due to the volume of applicants they'd basically never look at him again with a 2.i.

Although having just checked the website they'll now accept you with a 2.ii - not that it helps the OPs OH

Was that to me? about 18 months ago. But I had ds4 so took time out.

T&P- dont worry, I have an eye infection so we can type gibberish together LOL

It was our gcse exam today and I have year 11 gcse classes I think the relief of it all being over ( for year 11 anyway - year 12 next) has left me totally washed out. Am going to have to go to bed in a minute. Thanks God half my timetable has gone I can eek it out until half term.

I have careers interview tomorrow so am sort of starting up again, but am iin twominds whether to teach or do social work as the PGCE course is such a long drive away

Can't apply ntil nect year anyway but doing a TA course soon just to get some in schoolexperience to help with the decision

Or should have appt, depending n bloody eyesight , if it damages them at all that'smy licence gone- it's a closerun anyway apaprenlty with mya stigmatism

I must say that I am of the view that anybody wanting to be a teacher should have a 2:1 or a 1st. And I teach in an 11-16 National Challenge school - in my view, the pupils in those schools are the ones that deserve the very best teachers (although they don't always get them).

Of course, subject knowledge is only part of what's important (and classroom management, personality etc play a huge part) but I think that if we want teaching to be seen as 'up there' with doctors etc, then there have to be quite stringent entry requirements.

I agree janeite on both counts.

I agree about national challenge schools deserving the best teachers and needing them, I worked with some fantastic colleagues at my previous school which is now a national challenge school. But such schools can chew up and spit out dedicated teachers for fun and human nature means that many choose not to go there in the first place or can only last a few years.

I don't know how I did it, I dont think I could do it again

I'm not disagreeing with the idea that teachers should be well-qualified. I do think though that if that were the case in our school Science would be taught by highly qualified Arts graduates...

I was going to suggest the same as notcitrus - getting an MA seems to be a way into the profession..?
Isn't the MA in Teaching and Learning going to be rolled out to challenge schools first?
Maybe get some masters credits under his belt (or wherever he prefers!!) and then try again?

franKKIN - 6 years ago, but I don't think that's changed. However given you apply generally merely expressing a preference for 3 depts, it's possible that popular depts can be fussier when they allocate the people who have qualified for the fast stream? If you apply direct for a job, each dept probably has its own criteria.

Given that a masters usually requires some of the same material as an undergrad degree to be passed at the 2:1 level, I reckon one should be a substitute for that - many people don't do well in a degree for all sorts of reasons who may have the academic capability (in my case I was off my face on prescribed drugs during finals, but as the BBSRC wouldn't accept an unclassified honours, I could either repeat my final year - fairly pointless, or do an MSc instead.)

Bottersnike, I am genuinely surprised. Get the school, who are willing to sponsor your dh on his GTP, to contact the provider directly, mentioning his post-grad qualifications/any work he's done in the school/ indicate they are ready to go with a 70% timetable for him - potential employers often carry more weight than an individual. If that's a no-go, ask the school to speak to the PGCE provider. The alternative is for him to do a p/t or f/t PGCE with the OU and be placed at that school. My outstanding school's best teacher went the latter route. If he gets on the course he'll need to pass skills tests in ICT, Maths & English.

I know someone who has a 3rd hons degree in Maths yet is an 'outstanding' teacher who gets the best results in his school. I have also failed a trainee with a 1st; they simply had no presence in the classroom and could not convey their subject to the pupils.

So your dh shouldn't give up. He could always contact whichever minister suggested the army shold go into schools!

janeite, I don't agree with you on that front - mostly because I have a 2-2 Honours degree!

Academic achievement doesn't necessarily equate either to brain power or to teaching ability. My 2-2 was because I was a lazy bint at uni, not because I am thick. I have never found having a 2-2 to hold me back in my lecturing, and have had lots of positive feedback from students on my teaching abilities.

In my experience, most GTP providers want a 2:2 or above, BUT, any provider worth their salt will take life experience into consideration. I would suggest looking around at other providers, especially considering the recent media coverage about the lack of male primary school teachers and how young boys especially can benefit from male teachers at a young age.