Don't say Clever Girl or Clever Boy?!

[messymissy]

Did anyone see the horizon programme last night? It purported to be an investigation into the best way to educate our children.

It was a bit thin on the ground for facts or insights (as are many of the horizon programmes these days)

but,

one interesting bit a Dr/expert was advocating that the worse thing you can say to your child is 'What a clever girl / boy'

her reasoning was that it sets the child up to think cleverness is what you value, they will then be too afraid to try anything new, experiment, risk take, in case they get it wrong - and they will feel therefore they are no longer 'clever girl / boy'

she said it was best to say well done etc and reward sustained effort rather than results. Seemed odd at first but the more i think about it, the more I think she is right.

Modern life needs an ability for sustained effort in everything we do, the experts and people talent in arts etc reach there by practice practice and more practice, simply being clever is not answer.

So this morning, i was about to say clever girl but instead said well done....!!

Have I been brainwashed by the TV or do you think there is some truth in this?

ps - having worked in a school for a while in the art department, it was evident that the children would not just draw or paint unless they thought their work was right (correct) they would not experiment, they wanted to be told the work was correct.

"I thought praising good behaviour and hard work was good parenting!"

It is, I hope no-one reads this thread and thinks that praising is the wrong thing to do. The more praise the better, but it is how you praise that is important, i.e. praise the effort, not just the outcome. Praise for kindness, sharing, be creative and hard work, not for being clever.

for example, if I was with a particularly clever child, who had acheived a high grade I would say "You are very lucky to have such talent, well done for all your hard work and effort", so I am achkowledging that they are clever in a positive way but praising the behaviour, not the grade itself. I could also then say "If you keep up the hard work you will keep getting good grades" showing that I believe in them, painting a positive picture of their future but ultimately putting the resposability on them to continue putting in the effort.

The American academic was Carol Dweck. I have heard her speak in person. She was very impressive, especially when she said that she hears that what happens in the US happens here eventually. Then she said : don't for heaven's sake do what we have done, praising our children for every little thing. She reckons that in the US they have a whole generation of 20-30 year olds - professional people - who can't function unless they are constantly told they are doing a good job.

I thought she talked real sense, as did my colleagues.

Read all about her :

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_Dweck

It's true that americans ridiculously over the top with gratuitous praise.
I've worked there a lot and it is out of control.
Alfie's still a (well meaning) fool thoguh.

I think the more praise you give your kids the better. We shouldn't forget how vulnerable and sensitive small children are and all are desperate for parental approval. The loving praise of a parent is like sunshine to a child and they really respond to it. The advice an organisation of family therapists called 'The Parent Practice' give, it to be effusive with praise, but to make it specific, and it can be related to the smallest thing. Kids don't believe 'clever girl', or 'that's brilliant' on it's own - especially if it's said all the time. It has to be 'you pulled your trousers up on your own, that really helped Mummy and you're a very good boy for managing to do it' - specific.

I'll praise all my 3 DSs all the time (but also tell them off too - they're not spoilt).
I never intend to stop doing so - after all, iif your mummy doesn't think the sun shines oout of your backside, then who does!

My mum told me about this, as she is a primary school teacher. She is not too impressed with the idea, although she sees the value of having attention drawn to the way in which we address children.

I am cynical of stuff like that, and just think it is one of those measures (in terms of as a policy) brought in for the protection of those who are NOT clever.

But(How to talk so kids will listen etc, Faber and Mazlish style) I think that 'oh aren't you clever', is such a crap compliment, rather than a detailed compliment specific to the situation.

Ugh - just had two weeks of my mother constantly saying to DD, 'nicely done...' It started to get really really annoying.

I don't think saying 'clever girl/boy' is such a big deal as it's in response to a specific action.

I think Alfie Kohn has some interesting thoughts but I'll always remember a pregnant friend of mine trying to lug her wilfull dd toddler around a supermarket and adhere to all of AK's principles. It was immediately apparent that writing a book is quite different to living a book

I think it's good to be reflective but kids don't need perfect parents. We're all muddling through and I really don't think there are any easy answers. Some children are perfectionist, some are ready to try new things, some lack confidence and I think a large part of this rests with who they are..

I feel wary of anyone who writes an article claiming that saying 'good job' is bad in 5 different ways

What he's not taking into account is that children can be pretty evil too and sometimes they need to hear, "If you don't stop knocking cans off supermarket shelves now, you will never watch another tv show for the rest of your miserable childhood...."

The problem with the "you caught the ball" type of phrase is that some children would feel very patronised by this stating the obvious. Yes, I had noticed, Mum.

My dd would certainly have felt I was dumbing down.

Probably (pyjame issues).
He also thinks kids should help make rules in school.
Oh, and in work we should all have an equal say in what goes on.

My nine year old DD says it sounds sarcastic when I just say "good girl" - she prefers something more specific like "thank you for laying the table that's very helpful" Or "that was very kind of you to help your sister."

Context and persepective is what she's getting at

I was told growing up that I was stupid (I couldn't spell) and consequently have told DS and DD that they are/were clever as a simple reaction to what I was told and the impact it had on me. HAs it made a differentce? I don't know but they are more confident that I will ever be and hiughly thought of their teachers. I do say things like 'it doesn't matter how clever you are if you don't work with it' and I think DS understands this. I now add that I am impressed with their level of effort.