waldorf steiner

[heninthemidden]

hi,

anyone had good experience of waldorf steiner education system?

In fact wasn't it a bit like this?

From wilder (I am cutting and pasting out of context . . . )
"an example of Steiner the empiricist, who can sometimes be interesting." and "This is an example of how some of Steiner's observations concerning the emotional care of small children in education are reasonable" and "Steiner the empiricist (contributing in a minor way in his time)."

And northern's response:
"Wider,great post
You sure know your stuff."

Anyone else wondering what happened?

Northern, do you believe a) that some of Steiner's observations about the emotional care of small children in education are reasonable? and b) that Steiner "contributed in a minor way in his time?"

wilder, I am not being a sophist in my last post about beliefs. Let me try to explain . . .

Here's northern: "But surely the point is that the belief system/doctrine/pseudo science anthroposophy, which Steiner schools are rooted in and based on, holds this "developmental model"- (astral and etheric and so on) as "truth"."

I believe that only people can hold things as true or not, and only people can have intent (very unanthro I know.) Ideas don't automatically carry with them a latent intent. It is very possible for an idea to be conceived in one intent, yet adopted with another. Therefore, I don't see that it matters that anthro the doctrine states something as true. I see as relevant whether an individual holds something as true. As I've mentioned before, SWE is different things to different people.

That being said, I'm also questioning our (people on this thread) definitions of SWE.

I'd like to explore wilder's "If you want to jettison Steiner the mystic and are prepared to drop even Steiner the empiricist . . . you may be able to found a school with beginnings as good as the above. Then, we are no longer talking about Steiner at all."

Let's play with a hypothetical. I create a school using the SWE grades 1-8 curriculum as the foundation. We have main lessons, teach Manu, Noah and the Greeks. We order materials from Stockmar, but not exclusively. There are no anthros on the teaching staff or as trustees. We use water colours for painting in the early grades. We have wooden desks and tables, some with right angles, some rounded. We knit, among other things. We paint the wall colours whatever seems suitable. Nobody quotes Steiner because nobody reads Steiner. We are not accredited by the SWSF, but affiliated with them. We have seasonal festivals, perhaps even the advent spiral and michaelmas ritual, as well as Diwali and St David's Day. We don't have a college of teachers.

Would you see this as an SWE school or not? Why or why not? If we were to advertise it as something other than an SWE school, would we be considered to be 'hiding' something.

zazizoma - Why then would this imaginary school be affiliated with the SWSF? It seems very strange that you'd want to be. Why would you want to be?

We may be wondering what's happening because you seem to be in a muddle. If you cut and paste out of context you make no sense. Is that what you want? Not to make any sense?

If you want to found a school completely without Steiner we would all consider it on its merits. If you want to be affiliated with the SWSF we would ask ourselves: since you don't want to be associated with Steiner, are you in your right wits?

If you want to take elements from any curriculum that you like and have them in a school then by all means do so, if this would give you a client base. But if you're sort of half -in and half-out of the philosophies of that old fossil of a theosophist, please have some kind of coherent idea what you're doing or the children themselves will eat you alive.

So is membership or affiliation with SWSF what determines, in your mind, a SWE school?

Oh god this thread is making me mad.

May I just shout,

"Steiner Schools are fucked up, crazy and damaging places".

Just had to do that. Ok, carry on

Don't fret Manatee, I may have the answer!

All anthros look away NOW

Do I have to? Manatee? It is like the slow drip drip of the water torture of the chamber of inanity. It's like being trapped in an airless stuck elevator for 24 hours with Bruno Latour and his pet boa-constrictor. It is an insoluble riddle constructed out of pixie-dust and the half-digested lunch of an Atlantean ditch-digger. Will they stop if we give them all our money?

Barking Barking Barking you are a true genius! Just when I thought there was nothing for it but to plunge lemming-like over the cliff of reason! Fairy Blessings!

I am very happy and reassured about my two children who between them have been at Steiner kindergarten/school for a total of 15 years.
We have plenty of parents at our school and their testimonies of their times at SWS. I have asked them about some of the SWE critical myth that are circulating here and they all agree, fabricated, twisted, and designed to scare monger. One of them remebers Northern when she researched a school for her own child just over a year ago and I do not want to repeat what she said about Northern.

They are parents that have been to SWE schools and lead normal lives (non anthro) and now they want the same for their children.
You cannot fool them as they all had between ten and fiteen years of Waldorf education themselves .

While the Steiner Waldorf movement conducts thousands of academic research projects, renews itself, changes all the time, You the critics come up with the same old arguments for the last ninety years.
I also know that my childrens teachers have training in H&S, bullying, first aid and lots more. They were both State trained and changed their mind and came to Steiner Waldorf, as Thousands of teachers have in 60 countries around the globe.
I think it is good you are around though just stop scare mongering and use The first person singular when you speak about your beliefs please.

"Steiner Schools are fucked up, crazy and damaging places".
SPEAK FOR YOURSELF!!!

Please list these thousands of academic research projects. Give all relevant details. Now please, since you imply Northern is already at least ninety years old and may not have much more time.

Quote thecaty 'They are parents that have been to SWE schools and lead normal lives (non anthro) and now they want the same for their children.
You cannot fool them as they all had between ten and fiteen years of Waldorf education themselves.'

Poor people, I hope they see reason in the end.

No scare mongering is going on at all, quite sick to suggest it really knowing some of the things people have been through in Steiner School. Lets just leave children to be abused shall we? because that is easier than repeating what is happening to a social worker, and anyway, the kid is blonde, so it is ok...

Oh Manatee, I was wondering what had happened, did the school ever get back to you?

Yes, the Chairperson replied that he would have to speak with the school administrator, then the nest day he said she had had a fall and went to hospital, therefore he could not see her. That was on a Friday. I saw her briefly on both the Saturday and Sunday that weekend looking fine. I don't want to doubt his story, but considering this was now 2 weeks ago and I still have not heard from him again, I am starting to...

I agree totally with you Barking, and actually I DO find it difficult to function in the 'real' world, and Steiner WAS a solution to that, but also one that works on the weaknesses of those who are not (for whatever reason) at peace in the real world, and exploits these weaknesses into a need for something that Steiner cunningly fills. Much better off out of there and just learning how to deal with the world.

Here we go again... All the stories you refer to have been circulating for 90 years not Northern's.
So more scare stories then. It makes me sick.
The abuse in my mind is comming from you, it is the abuse of the use of words.
Twisting, turning, unbelievable, just short of lying in some cases.
Shall we follow up some of these stories then down to the minute detail not from hear say or from some disappointed parent and by minute detail I mean minute detail.
bring it on!!!

Manatee, I don't want to alarm you but the very people that are connected to the school may be reading the thread.

There are people that were involved on the previous Steiner threads last year that were banned from posting, but are still reading and can be rather menacing individuals, who threaten, censor and whitewash any negative experiences that could damage the Steiner school image. I worry they may have contacted your school, which is why I didn't respond when you previously mentioned the abuse case for fear they may be encouraged to reinterpret the situation and reframe it with a spiritual spin or cover up the evidence/lose the files etc.

I can't begin to tell you how upsetting and disconcerting this is to hear, as it's not the first time I've heard this happen.

thecaty You F*ing freak. Believe what you wnat to, but you are WRONG. It really is that simple. Small child in OCTOBER 2008 re-enacting sexual abuse acts and language on other children. Steiner School chooses to ignore. And then in DECEMBER 2008, create a malicious rumour about other children (darker hair, parents do not work at the school, unlike that of the kid being abused) saying that they play on sexually explicit computer games. This is to satisfy a trustee on a witch hunt after her kid got caught up in this, but not wanting to repeat the acts and language used, as I said, the school created a malicious rumour.

I shall repeat, just in case you did not get it first time around THIS HAPPENED IN 2008!!!

And if the school do not get their act together with an investigation, 2009 will be the year in which legal action is taken against them!!! (not only by myself, but by a friend who took her dd out dueto bullying at the same time 2008)

Just in case you have trouble with numbers, that is THE YEAR TWO THOUSAND AND EIGHT.

THAT MAKES IT ONE YEAR AGO, UNLIKE NINETEEN NINETEEN, (1919) which is NINETY (90) years ago.

Barking I do have my suspicions about that. I am just taking comfort from the fact that I KNOW I am not in the wrong and they are. Furthermore, social services are involved.

It is disconcerting, but I am determined to see this through. I am even naive/good natured enough to be giving them a chance to respond before going to Ofsted and solicitors.

Oh hell, Manatee, that is awful and so typical that they pathologise a little child in this way and the spreading of malicious gossip.

I think you've given them more than enough time to respond.

If I can help I will, cat me if you want.
Barking x

Sorry did not mean to get you swearing,
I am not saying that Steiner schools are free from mistakes or even awfull things.
But again your responses are so typical.
This sort of stuff happens in state schools all the time and in thousands of homes.

This is clearly your side of the story. I find it increadible that grown ups in 2009 see the world as black and white.
And that was not minute detail that was one sided, Manatee very one sided, as usual in this thread. A real shame!!!
good luck with the legal action!??
NB why don't you get this action out of the way and then you can really make your case.
Also crtics have been saying these things for the last ninety years that is 1920..1921..1922.......1943 not as schools in Germany were closed by the Nazies 1946...
1947....................................................................................... .....1999...................2008,2009 I mean to say almost every year since 1920.
I thought that was not that difficult to understand.
Happy Easter.

QUOTE: Believe what you wnat to, but you are WRONG. It really is that simple.

It really is that simple! I wonder, MANATEE if you consider that this might apply to you as well and when you will be correcting your obvious spelling mistake.

uh oh......(bad thread memory emoticon)

[bsm ile]