waldorf steiner

[heninthemidden]

hi,

anyone had good experience of waldorf steiner education system?

Silly me... I forgot... Steiner believed we have three bodies- they wouldn't arrive, that would look absurd....

they develop.

They are the stages of "child development" Steiner schools talk about so much....

That's what the schools are there for, to oversee this "development" of "astral", "etheric" and "physical" bodies....

Poor kid, trying to play football only to break his ankle, maybe if it was organised and on a proper pitch, in a normal games lesson it would be better managed? Just a thought.

Isenhart-
Crossed posts.
Why don't you tell us your interpretation of how astral and etheric bodies are developed?

Yeah, northernrefugee maybe you were silly and maybe you forgot. In any case you misrepresented anthroposophy and anthroposophists.

MANATEE-to reiterate-the soccer game where this particular injury happened was an annual tournament. Does that sound like it might be organized and supervised to you? If not, let me assure you that it was. The school maintains a proper soccer field for, of course, all the soccer that is not played.

Crikey- "misrepresenting anthroposophy and anthroposophists."
Considering the misrepresentation they give of their "tasks" and "work" with other people's children, I reckon that's a small blip.
If anthroposophists kept their experiments amongst themselves, it would be fine with me you see isenhart.
But they don't, because they think they have a divine spiritual right to mess with other people's children.
And yes, I am angry.
So bog off back to anthro land, anthro yahoo groups with your anthro bollocks.

So why not give us the anthroposphist's personal explanation of astral and etheric bodies?
Because it would stop your "normalising of Steiner waldorf" mission on mumsnet?

I would be glad to provide you with my personal take on just about anything, northernrefugee39. When you figure out what you'd like me to explain to you start a thread on that subject.

So why not give us the anthroposphist's personal explanation of astral and etheric bodies?

So why not give us the anthroposphist's personal explanation of astral and etheric bodies?

So why not give us the anthroposphist's personal explanation of astral and etheric bodies?

Is this clear enough for you isennhart?

Wilderduck - Tim is brilliant yes and here he is again Enjoy

Pluralism of scientific methods can be very useful - we can use different methodological approaches to understand the world around us BUT of course anthroposophy is NOT a scientific method.

Again, I would be happy to provide you with my personal explanation of the nature of the human being but this is a thread to discuss positive experiences of Waldorf/Steiner education not anthroposophy. Though I understand that you find it difficult to be able to discuss one without the other.

Isenhart - because it's impossible to discuss Waldorf/Steiner without discussing anthroposophy, so persistent and immovable is that pachyderm.
I just sent a Tim Minchin link to myself instead of Barking so fast are these posts flying. Perhaps I'll just listen to it again.

Isenhart, you seem to suck all the air out of the room when you put in an appearance here.

isenhart Again you are doing that politician thing with avoiding Northern's question.

And I am just wondering why you originally said football is not played at Steiner becasue it is dangerous, because now you are saying it IS played, or was it stopped after this accident??? But I DO know that there are reasons behind football not being played at Steiner schools. So why say it is dangerous, then when that is contended, say you know of an injury, then when it is suggested the injury was due to inadequate facilities, say it was played on a proper, maintained pitch at the Steiner school (having previously given danger as a reason it is NOT played at Steiner Schools)??? Why not just say in comment to the original point of football being banned at Steiner School 'It is played at the School I am involved with, only it stopped/is not encouraged, after an injury??? But then why would the school maintain a pitch??? All the contradictions make an unconvincing argument.

Perhaps Isenhart is a sphinx.

MANATEE: I didn't say that football is not played at Steiner. My comment was that it was, in fact, allowed. This was another participant's response as well. That's great that you DO know that there are reasons behind football not being played at Steiner Schools. What I know is what the school around the corner from me actually does and yes, in answer to your question, football is still played.

Barking-
"Isenhart, you seem to suck all the air out of the room when you put in an appearance here"

MANATEE - I daresay anthro headquarters have strategies for dealing with awkward questions about race, Atlantis, elemental beings, evolution and the like...your political analogy is too near the bone.

So the etheric and astral stages of child development has nothing to do with Steiner school experience?
Least of all positive one?

sigh

"So the etheric and astral stages of child development has nothing to do with Steiner school experience? "

If there are in fact etheric and astral stages of child development then I imagine they would have a great deal to do with any school experience.

If there is no such thing as etheric and astral stages of child development then they have nothing to do with a school experience because they don't exist.

If a teacher believes a child has an astral and etheric stage of development (which is perhaps what you are really asking), then the degree to which this affects the child's educational experience is dependent on the professionalism of the teacher. Much as a teacher believing my dc is destined for hell by being unbaptised. Again, in my mind, a question of disclosure of personal belief, which perhaps should be advocated in all situations.

I have no objection to dropping the Steiner name or using the Steiner-inspired tag, but it would still be the Steiner curriculum, so why not just call it that.

But surely the point is that the belief system/doctrine/pseudo science anthroposophy, which Steiner schools are rooted in and based on, holds this "developmental model"- (astral and etheric and so on) as "truth".

The reticence with which the Steiner educational bodies have about being expilicit around the subject, coupled with the frantic desire to keep the wilder "truths" from people doesn't help.

Nor does the language used by them, like the SWSF's "based on an understanding of the relevance of the different phases of child development;" and "imagination", because Steiner's take in these is far from most people's understanding.

Comparing the anthroposophical model to say Christianity is a red herring; Christianity isn't a "hidden" belief system. And when we place our children in a Christian, or any other religon based school, we're told about it.
The whole point about Steiner schools, is that they don't let on. Until, or unless, if ever, they believe a parent is "ready".

Zazizoma, you said: "I have no objection to dropping the Steiner name or using the Steiner-inspired tag, but it would still be the Steiner curriculum".

What is it that you hold so dear?

Is it the childs soul and what rung of the spiritual ladder it may be on, determined by their skin colour, karma and other physiological characteristics?

Is it the occult teachings of anthroposophy, that is the mental disorder clairvoyance of Rudolph Steiner?

Because that is all that anthroposophy is.

The crafts, the baking of the bread, the 'holistic', 'nurturing' angle and the great outdoors are all just window dressing, they have absolutely nothing to do with your sinister and duplicitous movement.

zazizoma - I could accuse you of sophistry, though I'm assuming you are, as you say, entirely sincere.
I went back to look at the website of the Cardiff Steiner Initiative and found this under principles It epitomizes the 2 sides of Steiner. The section on the left is... nonsense gained by clairvoyance and now fixed in doctrine and on the right is an example of Steiner the empiricist, who can sometimes be interesting.

Reading the section on the right I agree that there are potential biological mechanisms linking for example 'rote learning' to hardening of the arteries. However the evidence does not support this particular hypothesis. (There's a theme within scientific literature of investigating the link between emotion and heart disease which has generally not borne fruit though there is a statistical association between ischaemic heart disease and depression)

This is an example of how some of Steiner's observations concerning the emotional care of small children in education are reasonable: promoting resilience and developing confidence are the buzz words of MAINSTREAM early years' experience in the UK. 'Every child matters' is the core of Government policy. Nor is it impossible to find examples of early years' excellence on the model of a kindergarten in this country without ANY of the doctrines of karma, incarnation and the impossible-to-define 'spiritual' that quite openly pervades Waldorf Steiner schools, as evidenced by this link clearly made for the benefit of parents on the Cardiff Steiner Initiative site

Here is one very good example

If you want to jettison Steiner the mystic and are prepared to drop even Steiner the empiricist (contributing in a minor way in his time) you may be able to found a school with beginnings as good as the above. Then, we are no longer talking about Steiner at all.

As for the beliefs of teachers in schools: I like many people nowadays do not privilege 'belief' over political opinion. If a teacher in my dcs school was an active member of the British National Party I would need to know and would be concerned. Knowing all we now know about anthroposophy, we would be foolish not to feel a similar concern exposing our dcs to even the 'professional' anthroposophist.

Wider,great post
You sure know your stuff.

The Moorland and childhood centre you link to looks wonderful- precisely the sort of education we were seeking when we stumbled into Steiner.

The government's phrase "every child matters" would surely fall on hollow ground in relation say to encouraging the changing of left handedness, or the use of the temperaments, let alone Steiner's teachings on race and spiritual hierarchies .

I'm surprised that your post from yesterday, suggesting an Equality Impact Assessment document would surely be a standard procedure, has been deleted. Why?
It seemed a perfectly reasonable post?

Your point about beliefs of teachers is one well made.

Northern - yes, I've just noticed it's been deleted. It is standard now to complete this kind of assessment and shouldn't be taken personally by any organization.

mumsnet is great though, all sorts of issues raised and help offered on lots of threads. And I didn't realize that your medieval thread turns up pretty often! Some excellent comediennes on this site. I wouldn't want to compromise the webmistresses so I'm not going to fuss.