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waldorf steiner

1000 replies

heninthemidden · 01/03/2009 18:01

hi,

anyone had good experience of waldorf steiner education system?

OP posts:
tattifer · 07/04/2009 10:50

"I believe that the attention to detail and artistic elements of a Steiner classroom do indeed help to nurture awareness and respect for beauty. This attention to artistic detail is not a priority in any of the state schools I have known. "

I know I may of mentioned this before but one of the first things that sent cold chills down my spine was loking at the artwork displayed in a steiner classroom. It was identical. There is nothing artistic or nurturing in dictating to children that only one way is the right way. But having seen entirely the opposite in a myriad of state schools I know exactly where art and creativity and awe are being nurtured.

It turns my stomach to think any one would think to teach otherwise is the only way to go.

Barking · 07/04/2009 11:21

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northernrefugee39 · 07/04/2009 11:35

MANATEEequineOHARA- you are obviously a woman well read- I'm going to read 'The Merleau Ponty Reader' - you have inspired me...
You may want to see the source of the boiled lettuce and jelly man...
Theosophy of the Rosicrucian it's in the chapter called Planetary Evolution II I think, but the whole lecture is well worth reading.

Zazimoma,
" I'm going to attempt a brief explanation that is not intended as advocacy."

"It's intended to be an historical perspective tracing the rise to dominance and subsequent fall of various leading cultures. "

I apologise if you felt I was a stroppy dollop in replying to your answer to MANATEE.

I just couldn't sit like a bump on a log and let your explanation go .....

Every time these myths and lunacy are described as "history" or "science" a gnome dies....

I think Manatee has illustrated pretty thoroughly her wide understanding on many subjects; it's well known that Aryan describes Persian Indo Iranians.

I just felt your reply was like so many given to parents at the schools, half- Steinerisms wrapped up in a kind of "historical" package, to normalise and quell any questions.

Yes, I do believe anthroposophy is based on a doctrine which is holds racist beliefs, or whatever one likes to call them. Whether or not this shows up in the classroom is open to debate, and what is in the teacher's mind when decisions are made; or what part of steiner's text he/she may be putting into practice; this is part of life. But they should certainly disown them, stop publishing them etc... and if one's children have been touched by it, I think it's serious.
And I also believe there is a concerted effort to keep anthroposophy and all it's madness from people.
If they want more state funding, come clean about anthroposophy.
This isn't just something which tickles my fancy to be get involved in; we were burnt by flying into the anthro flame, it's still smouldering. We're patently obviously not the only ones...

Tra La- because that was the only time you said Steiner inspired. There are some schools called that already I think.
The Steiner Waldorf schools Fellowship probably wouldn't include them though, because their schools are "underpinned" by anthroposophy.

I agree about there not being enough creativity and artistic activities in state schools. It was one of the reasons we chose Steiner....
But that doesn't mean a school based on occult pseudo religious beliefs is a good substitute.
Steiner "art" is not what many would call either creative or "art"; it has a spiritual agenda, there are meanings and reasons behind much of it. And a very great deal of copying.

Words fail me about the temperaments.
Aside from anything, it's just so...cruel to label based on things like body shape, and all too near eye and hair colour.....

MANATEEequineOHARA · 07/04/2009 11:52

Thanks Northern! How can I resist reading about boiled lettuce and Jelly-man, goes to look at link

northernrefugee39 · 07/04/2009 11:52

"the sanguine are the most normal"

"those with more protruding shoulders are the phlegmatic children"
Build: big, fleshy, rotund
Walk: plodding, ambling (has a steamroller-like quality)"

"the child's temperament something really appears that could be described as the consequence of experiences in previous lives on earth." Steiner

northernrefugee39 · 07/04/2009 11:55

MANATEEequineOHARA

One person's cause for hilarity is another's reality....

I've found 'The Merleau Ponty Reader' on Google books- it looks fascinating.

We've got friends coming so have no time...

MANATEEequineOHARA · 07/04/2009 11:59

Oh-my-goodness! What I find most shockng about that link to Steiner lectures, from Northen, is the way he talks like it IS proven fact!

For example:
'Human beings were already actually in existence on Saturn but in a dull, dull consciousness.'

The 'actually', as a contradiction to the general consensus?!?!?! It is actually quite mad, the way in which he describes it all, as if it is correct because 'he knows so', I actually wonder why he was not sectioned.

MANATEEequineOHARA · 07/04/2009 12:02

Oh no...I just cannot work out which 'temperament' I fit into...goodness, I must be a freak.

Barking · 07/04/2009 12:51

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Barking · 07/04/2009 12:55

Northern, you said: "Every time these myths and lunacy are described as "history" or "science" a gnome dies...."

That is Steinerlarious

isenhart7 · 07/04/2009 14:14

"And I also believe there is a concerted effort to keep anthroposophy and all it's madness from people."

I think this may be true and, if so, this thread may be a good example.

AlderTree · 07/04/2009 14:44

Sorry, I'm having trouble keeping up with the rate of discussion. And I've lost the flow a bit from where we were about the issue of the faith of the teachers of our children.. So the person who asked me to clarify soemthing about this I was not being rude/ignoring your comment. I beleive you were enquiring how far the disclosure should go.

I think I was quite clear from the beginning - teacher's resonal belief is irrelevant and not for disclosure. I like others have no interest in whether they are chrisitian, buddhist, athiest or anything else. What I would like them to be is totally clear to the best of their knowledge about what they are teaching my or anyone else's children, able to discuss other faiths with balance and respect and to encourage the children to ask questions about why people think and believe different things. Most importantly to say when they (the teacher) do not know the answer or that it is something the child must decide for themselves.

I could not be sure that a school that is not transparent in what exactly it is teaching has teachers who can act in this objective way. This is probably not the individual teachers fault if they do not know the extent/implications of what they are teaching.

As an aside, the historical basis of the existence of state schools in this country is that the church funded them. If you could not afford private the only way to an education was the church schools who aimed to offer a basic education to everyone (moral/religion included). This is why there are so many church schools - CoE/RoC. A condition of working at such a school is that you are happy to teach RE and be sympathetic to the ethos of the school. You do not have to believe what you are teaching and in the new RE curriculum adopted by the more forward thinking LEAs concepts are the focus of study not religious knowledge. You will go to church at Easter/Christmas, celebrate harvest and have assemblies that are broadly Christian in focus. You will not have this creeping into every area of the curriculum, science is science, art is art - you study the different artists and techniques, discuss awe, question the big questions about our biology and existence and make links between areas of study where appropriate, you will discuss right, wrong and manners and at an informed school have a programme of personal and social education that recognises and celebrates differences and investigates how we can learn to work together and deal with bullies in a satifactory way.

I am confident the church school I send my son to does all this and I am not concerned that everything he learns has a bit of Chirstian gloss painted around the edges.

AlderTree · 07/04/2009 14:47

that should be Christian. My hands are not co-operating today.

northernrefugee39 · 07/04/2009 15:55

Here's a thread for you to join isenhart
medieval mumsnet

zazizoma · 07/04/2009 16:06

And that of Sun 05-Apr-09 17:34:44.

Manatee - I do seriously apologise if you were at all offended by my explaining aryan. I do believe that you and most of our fellow posters are indeed highly intelligent and well-read.

zazizoma · 07/04/2009 16:17

Northern, that "And that of Sun 05-Apr-09 17:34:44" was intended for you, and it should have come after
see Sun 05-Apr-09 20:18:30 for my previous use of Steiner-inspired.

zazizoma · 07/04/2009 16:21

Thank you Alder, I didn't think you were rude, just busy. And I agree with you.

MANATEEequineOHARA · 07/04/2009 19:39

Zazizoma No offence taken.

Northern It is so sweet of you to find such a fitting new thread for Isenhart .

Barking On the subject of physical form representing past incarnations; I wonder what they thought of with regards to my daughters rather high pitched small-girl-on-helium style voice!
I do often remember teachers commenting on certain children as 'typical Steiner children'. These were (scarily) the blonde ones, those that were often the homeopathic 'calc-carb' types (not that the teachers said that, that is just how I am describing them!). Which is...wierd.

Nontoxic · 07/04/2009 20:12

The last several pages of posts have made my eyes glaze over and my head spin (which is probably how people like myself fall victim to the whole thing in the first place - like the mother in the 'brush with Rudolf Steiner' thread).

But I must say, when my DD was at kindie, the teacher made no attempt to hide her strong feelings for the pretty, blond-haired, blue-eyed children in her class.

She was actually quite cold and undemonstrative as a rule, but I remember being surprised to see her fondly stroking their hair and uttering loving words to them.

wilderduck · 07/04/2009 22:53

I want to add to Manatee's observation about the new thread for Isenhart. It is the funniest thing I've seen on the web since this early footage of Jeremy Smith, ruthless communications officer of the SWSF and associates (you know who you are) in their ceaseless pursuit of those renegade anti-Steiner trolls wherever they are hiding

wilderduck · 08/04/2009 08:58

btw Manatee - those texts are fascinating. I came across a review of 'Descartes' Error' a few days ago and since it's by Dan Dennett I'll link to it here

Barking · 08/04/2009 10:37

Loved your 'comfy chair' link Wilder!
May I ask were you a comedian in a past life?

wilderduck · 08/04/2009 12:26

Yes Barking, you have rumbled me
Not a lot of laughs in Atlantis though, sadly. Couldn't give up the day job.

northernrefugee39 · 08/04/2009 12:56

Ooohh I love your links girls...

Wilder" the review of Damasio's book is fascinating; gosh, there's so much to learn and take in I wish there was more time* sigh... maybe in my next life eh?

Speaking of which, next life, higher worlds and all, I thought this might pique zazimoma's interest on the subject of Steiner and reverence and awe which they all love re-iterating.

In Knowledge of Higher Worlds, Chapter 1, Steiner talks about the "conditions" necessary to obtain this knowledge of higher worlds-
"There are children who look up with reverent awe to certain venerated persons. Their reverence for these people forbids them, even in the deepest depths of their hearts, to admit any thought of criticism or opposition ... Many occult pupils come from the ranks of such children." [bhmm

Knowledge of Higher Worlds is at the Rudolf Steiner Archive.

It also has some elucidating passages about "initiates" not revealing knowledge to anyone unless they're ready or prepared to receive it.

Sounds familiar.

Apparently, receiving this "knowledge" unprepared could throw people into "utter disarray" and it could be "more that they could endure"

So, there you have it,it appears the motives for protecting parents from anthroposopohic truth, is to shield them from the shock.

northernrefugee39 · 08/04/2009 13:11

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