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waldorf steiner

1000 replies

heninthemidden · 01/03/2009 18:01

hi,

anyone had good experience of waldorf steiner education system?

OP posts:
isenhart7 · 02/04/2009 15:41

Barking-choosing a private education for one's child does not equate to rejecting state education.

isenhart7 · 02/04/2009 15:57

Northern-I tend to think that you, as a parent, are in the best position to determine what your child should or shouldn't be exposed to. I thought the Times article "Top Marks For Sect Schools That Shun The Modern World" was relevant to the question of whether the Brethren schools could receive high Ofsted marks-apparently they can and do.

With statements like, "I can't comment usefully on the Plymouth Brethren except like you I wouldn't risk it, however good the education!" outside influences are obviously something parents are there to guard against.

Barking · 02/04/2009 16:11

And so Isenhart7 continues to whistle and looks the other way...

isenhart7 · 02/04/2009 16:48

'Tis true-I do prefer a good tune to ummm-barking.

"Just whistle while you work
And cheerfully together we can tidy up the place
So hum a merry tune
It won't take long when there's a song to help you set the pace

And as you sweep the room
Imagine that the broom is someone that you love
And soon you'll find you're dancing to the tune
When hearts are high the time will fly
So whistle while you work"

wilderduck · 02/04/2009 19:21

It's a sweet song, yes. You Americans are so sentimental
This break in hostilities is charming: I'll put my Dyson Dual Cyclone on as a sort of drone.
What'ya doing Isenhart? No, what are you really doing? I've often wondered.

Barking · 02/04/2009 20:31

Hi Northern and Wilderduck
I fear Isenhart suffers with the all too common condition that troubles estate agents and anthroposophists - an obsessive compulsive re-arrangement of reality.

She should know better, and I suspect she does know better. I can only guess on her reasons to why she hides behind Steiner woo...

AlderTree · 02/04/2009 22:03

Hello barking and Northern. Pleased to meet you Wilderduck. I popped in here a while a go then didn't have the stamina for reading all the posts....though you three have contributed some gems. Popped back to type my surprise at how long this thread has got after the last one we met on seemed to go quiet. Haven't resolved my situation. Am taking the ostrich approach because my own life is so busy.

Seayork2002 · 02/04/2009 23:02

I was thinking of considering looking into these schools but if they are threatning legal action because people have ngative opinions on there system they I have reconsidered.

thecaty · 03/04/2009 00:13

Barking, I never said I am against state schools and what has Ofstead got to do with state school anyway. They have a dedicated team to look at Steiner Waldorf schools and both teams were really interested and had done their homework before they came. It is intersting though how they praised our academic standards. they highlighted the exellent relationship between teachers and pupils. the first class welfare the children receive and the list goes on.
They contradict some of the horror stories we read on hundreds of blogs by Waldorf critics.

wilderduck · 03/04/2009 11:45

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northernrefugee39 · 03/04/2009 11:55

wilderduck- I do think there's a huge element of that - fooling some of the people....

I think when Steiner people say "it doesn't suit everybody" they probably mean that the atheists, materialists- (anthro translation- as in those who don't believe in imaginary worlds, not those who have too many shoes) and the down to earth sort, who find the fairies, angels and devils too much, are dismissed as colatteral damage; they still have others that might absorb the spirituality.

I'm always surprised at the lack of simple human kindness and common sense among some of these people. Their belief in this spiritual make-believe world transcends day to day gestures of compassion; coupled with succumbing to the resignation of karma, it really takes things out of their hands.

I'm thinking of the bullying, and the way some of the people with learning difficulties at camphill were dealt with.

I've said it before I'm sure, but I often wonder if the children who survive at Steiner, are the ones at the top of the "pecking order"; they're frequently called confident, perhaps because they've been allowed to bully, or place themselves in that postion because little intervention has prevented it; this, and the acceptance that their "temperament" dictates their character, as well as their "past life". A self fullfilling phrophecy.

Just as those who are bullied, lacking in confidence, shy, bad at running, etc are labelled with Steiner's pre-ordained traits, there's no point in trying to help because that's how it is, in Steiner world....., perhaps in their next life, if they absorb some anthroposophical notions, they won't be phlegmatic or bullied- their own fault anyway because of their previous life...

northernrefugee39 · 03/04/2009 12:05

isenhart7
you said
"Northern-I tend to think that you, as a parent, are in the best position to determine what your child should or shouldn't be exposed to."
That's why Steiner schools should be honest and upfront about the occult spiritual ideas behind their education.
I am furious that my children were exposed to this bollocks covertly. Had decisions and choices made about them based on supernatural tripe.
That's why I feel it's essential that discussions like this happen, and enable parents to read Steiner and find out about it, not just when the schools think they "are ready". Because it doesn't seem that likely that the powers that be within the Steiner Waldorf movenment are ready to open up soon; or perhaps they will. What do you think? There are rumblings of people talking about "reform" and "disclosure" I gather.

northernrefugee39 · 03/04/2009 12:06

Hi AlderTree glad you're still around.
Surprised this thread is still around too...

isenhart7 · 03/04/2009 13:47

Any rumblings there may be, appear, to me at least, to be entirely yours.

wilderduck · 03/04/2009 13:58

Northern - It's easy to come across quite openly candid books like this and to feel that your anxieties are entirely reasonable. To take these quack concepts of karma into the classroom is likely to lead to all sorts of abuses. It is madness.

It's not entirely up to parents what their children are exposed to: the state also has responsibilities.

And the children have rights too: mind that angry teenager

thecaty · 04/04/2009 02:48

I heard of this woman that was unhappy with her local primary as her girl did not get a part in the schools nativity play. Her girl wanted to be an angel but ended up being a donkey. her mum withdrew her from the school after she got no proper answers form the head teacher. She also believed her girl was bullied at the school. She then slagged off the primary and home educated her daughter. A neighbour heard the same mum shouting at her child on a daily bases as she got frustrated with being answered back. The daughter grew up and recovered from her mums tantrums. She (the daughter) now lives more or less happely married with her own children which are at a Steiner school. She keeps her own mother at a distance as she wants her children to grow up with a deep sense of wonder about the world. She obviously does not believe in the myth that sciences are the new religion as her own mum believed.
Northern refugee you are in danger of creating your own myth with a following of one hundred or so other mums, eventually getting bored as not much of what you say is constructive, that is a real shame and I suggest that you have a good look at that.
Seriously....
Yours thecaty bhmm

northernrefugee39 · 04/04/2009 09:07

wilder- karma and reincarnation are a fairly central theme in anthroposophy and therefore schools... I see the charismatic Eugen Schwartz of Millenium Child is in town giving a talk about it this month

thecaty teachers and parents are human beings- suspect choices and acts happen everywhere. The difference in a Steiner school however, is that they are dealt with in the light of karma and belief in the supernatural. I wonder why ofsted apparently quite often say that records are poorly kept about meetings staff have about children. Oh to be a fly on the wall....One of my daughter's teacher's "lost" some things when we were leaving...

Instilling a sense of "awe and wonder" in your children is quite possible without Steiner too; that phrase is repeated so often, along with "head heart hands" and "recieving the children in reverence" I'm surprised they don't own copyright.

One of the reasons we chose Steiner school was to extend our children's childhood, propogate a love of nature and keep the computer games, make-up and Jack Wills at bay slightly longer; ironically, some of the children who were at Steiner school with them are now noisily roaming the streets at night more made up/tarted up than the most rebellious convent girls if you get my drift.... there can be a violent reaction to the insular world of gnomes and rainbow wool....(and the Bodenistas too- there was a lot of that at the school ours were)

Teachers have a duty to be ultra vigilant and sensitive; wasn't there a case in Bristol I think, where the teacher cast the only Afro Caribbean children in the class as monkeys in the class play?

But if they follow the indications of a man whose dubious ideas and teachings were culled from his clairvoyancy, the scope for questionable choices is fraught with infinite uncertainty.

Knowledge is freedom and power; the powers that be within Steiner circles keep their true colours under wraps; I think they should be revealed so parents can be free to choose for themselves whether their children are taught within a framework of these beliefs.

Often the cry to peope like us, who discovered late in the day what anthroposphy was about, is that it was our responsibility to research before we placed our children in the schools; having researched (and everything is available on the net now, if you look beyond the websites promoting Steiner Waldorf, and read Steiner himself at the Rudolf Steiner Archive) we are castigated for advising others to do so too.

If a hundred parents do find out for themselves, they have the freedom make their own minds up. Rather than eating the "awe and wonder" phrases spewed up continuously by the schools. or letting the schools decide if and when they are "ready" to know.

northernrefugee39 · 04/04/2009 09:23

thecaty
I don't quite understand this
"She obviously does not believe in the myth that sciences are the new religion as her own mum believed."
Science is...ummm...science, - based on systemized knowledge of the physical world

religion is a belief in the supernatural.

Also I'm not sure either what you mean about creating my own myth? It sounds clever, but I don't see it really means much.

All I've done is relate our families experiences, and tried to make sense of them by correlating them with anthroposophic belief, which is what the schools are based on.

wilderduck · 04/04/2009 10:43

Yes thecaty, it is a myth that sciences are the new religion... science is an approach to knowledge.

I hardly think Northern is creating a myth, the X-box game creatures all come from anthroposophy.

thecaty · 04/04/2009 13:03

science is finding a way how to explain happenings etc.not more and not less

wilderduck · 04/04/2009 15:01

Of course. Why would it need to be any more?

isenhart7 · 04/04/2009 15:13

"The word science comes from the Latin "scientia," meaning knowledge.

How do we define science? According to Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary, the definition of science is "knowledge attained through study or practice," or "knowledge covering general truths of the operation of general laws, esp. as obtained and tested through scientific method [and] concerned with the physical world."

What does that really mean? Science refers to a system of acquiring knowledge. This system uses observation and experimentation to describe and explain natural phenomena. The term science also refers to the organized body of knowledge people have gained using that system. Less formally, the word science often describes any systematic field of study or the knowledge gained from it.

What is the purpose of science? Perhaps the most general description is that the purpose of science is to produce useful models of reality."

www.sciencemadesimple.com/science-definition.html

northernrefugee39 · 04/04/2009 15:32

isenhart, I think perhaps the words "physical world" and "truths" are a little clue here....

isenhart7 · 04/04/2009 15:39

Perhaps. Perhaps "or" is a little clue as well or even an operative word in this particular definition.

Barking · 04/04/2009 15:39

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