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waldorf steiner

1000 replies

heninthemidden · 01/03/2009 18:01

hi,

anyone had good experience of waldorf steiner education system?

OP posts:
MANATEEequineOHARA · 28/03/2009 21:19

Oh but there are many areas in which they could specialise...

Music (only in the pentatonic scale)

Art (only in certain colours)

Felting...all day...continuously

Eurythmy...once you have pinned doen the relevent nut case who has studied the art of waving your arms around for 6 long years.

Food tech- with special focus on millet porridge.

And, ummm, building treehouses???

wilderduck · 28/03/2009 21:36

What do you do with felt?

MANATEEequineOHARA · 28/03/2009 21:44

Wilderduck Surely you are joking???

wilderduck · 28/03/2009 22:06

manatee I once spent a whole evening making felt balls at a social gathering. I couldn't even get it right. They kept... disintegrating between my fingers into weird woolly gloopy sludgy shapeless... well anyway I was a total failure. I slunk away in tears. How would I face my peers? All of them with a stock of plump, sheep-based... balls in their laps? So useful at... sheep-based ball parties...
I had to have therapy.

MANATEEequineOHARA · 28/03/2009 22:18

Haha Wilderduck, Getting the perfect round ball is a tricky thing! But once perfected you are sorted for life...really, if you can felt you have got it made. Oh...or is that just another Steiner illusion...

wilderduck · 28/03/2009 22:43

So you sort of felt your way to .. at least the foothills of enlightenment, way below base camp of those Higher Worlds? I am not going to make it even that far...

I hope you find some answers from your school. There's little to say until you know how they intend to respond, I suppose.

cotham · 31/03/2009 23:15

Our daughter moved from a mainstream school to a Steiner school 2 years ago into Year 2 (Class 1) and has thrived. Her friendship base is good, her teachers are caring and experienced and she is LEARNING well. As i parent I have more contact with her teacher when or if I need it and her progress is good. She has friends from mainstream schools and other extra-curricular groups such as brownies and drama and fits in well. The school gets OFSTED inspections and the last one rated the school as outstanding. For us it was the right decision.

Barking · 01/04/2009 10:23

Thank you Cotham, I've just read your post, nodding sagely until I realised what day it is today

wilderduck · 01/04/2009 12:07

Cotham - If your Steiner school has been judged 'outstanding' i.e to be an outstanding provider, it will have the right to carry the logo that goes with this on its stationary etc.
Many schools are judged outstanding in one or more areas but this does not mean they are outstanding providers.

Interestingly the ofsted report for one London Steiner school, dated 2007 states: 'Direct comparisons with national expectations for achievement are not possible'. It also noted that the one area in which all pupils were successfully involved was... knitting.

Hang on to those Brownies, I would.

cotham · 01/04/2009 16:50

A fair point but in the school I am talking about there were a lot more 'outstandings' and I don't think knitting was one of them interestingly enough. It's horses for courses obviously but in this case my daughter is in the right school for her and is thriving across a range of 'normal' subjects. Oh and her knitting is fab too!

I sent the message last night so no Fool message intended

justaboutback · 01/04/2009 16:58

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wilderduck · 01/04/2009 17:38

That is really scary justaboutback! I've heard tell of the Brethren. I sometimes think ofsted hears the word 'spiritual' and goes sort of... colourblind.

justaboutback · 01/04/2009 17:41

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wilderduck · 01/04/2009 18:27

justaboutback - My dcs C of E primary is an outstanding provider (these terms are so clumsy) and we're proud of the staff who gained that status through much care and hard work. It's sad to think that ticking boxes would do it even if what's beneath the surface is something... else. I can't comment usefully on the Plymouth Brethren except like you I wouldn't risk it, however good the education! Having googled their schools it helps to place all this in a wider perspective, so thank you.
It's always horses for courses but that elephant of anthroposophy is still in the room... I'm glad that any dc is having a good experience (and knitting, as long as it's part of a wider hand-craft based experience) but the elephant is still sitting on too many other people's dcs.

isenhart7 · 01/04/2009 19:37

www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/education/article433080.ece

justaboutback · 01/04/2009 19:43

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isenhart7 · 01/04/2009 20:02

Guidance on types of independent schools

"Focus schools are owned by the Focus Learning Trust (FLT) and run by local Exclusive Christian Brethren (ECB) communities. They tend to be small and cater primarily for secondary-aged pupils. Although many of these schools are in purpose-built school accommodation, others are found in unconventional settings such as parts of warehouses. In general, the schools are well-funded, well-organised and employ teachers, generally on a part-time basis, who are well qualified and experienced. The schools offer GCSE courses in most subjects. However, ICT is not taught at the schools, as the ECB remains fundamentally opposed to the use of electronic communication and the Internet.

Inspectors should note that since September 2006 FLT has set up its own inspectorate to inspect these schools. This inspectorate, the School Inspection Service (SIS), has been approved by the Secretary of State and Ofsted is responsible for monitoring the quality of its work."

Monitoring of Faith Schools

wilderduck · 01/04/2009 20:05

Your point was interesting enough anyway justaboutback

thecaty · 01/04/2009 23:25

Hi I am back
I have two thriving children at Steiner Waldorf School with an exellent in its OFSTEAD report. there is a mixture of parents, ex home ed ex, state school and anthroposophical families happely (more or less) being at the same school. the parents have a big say in the school. sorry to hear of some families not having good experiences.

Barking · 02/04/2009 09:35

With reference to Ofsted, why highlight apparent state endorsement when you have rejected state education

northernrefugee39 · 02/04/2009 10:00

cotham I'm really glad the school suits your dc; I know some children who've come through Steiner well, and gone on to do courses at colleges and thrived. But I know more who haven't. Or have found it extremely hard to fit in to "outside" life. ( At the school ours were,"outsiders" was a phrase used quite often) Or simply have very few academic skills, such as fluent reading and writing. Let alone spelling.

Although we don't all have to "fit in", diversity is wonderful and important, I do feel it's fairer to have a choice, and not to have our children part of the great anthroposphical experiment.

I find myself questioning whether it's important to know completely about the belief system your child is immersed in, if they are seemingly benefitting from it, and it isn't causing obvious harm; because this is the stance so often taken by the anthroposophists. My feeling is that the "freedom" talked about by Steiner acolytes, should not be so one sided, and should include the freedom of knowledge (in the non anthroposophical sense) and that we should be aware of the reasons for why certain things are taught, and as they are at the schools.

Justa I agree. The extremes of belief like the Plymouth Brethren are quite scary. That way of "educating" fulfillls the sect's desire to propagate its membership, by ensuring very few of those children can "escape" to lead a normal life.
And there are degrees of that all over the place. But then I'm a great believer in separating state and faith; faith is such a personal thing.

Isenhart, the Times article you linked to about Plymouth Brethren Schools is interesting.
The sect "believes the world is the domain of the Devil, and members spend most of their time in ?safe places? such as meeting rooms and their own homes."

I tend to agree with Keith Porteous Wood who said in the article
"Denying children access to knowledge that would help them to cope in the modern world is tantamount to abuse."

I'm not sure what your point in linking to the article was? Do you find a similarity with Steiner schools in their protecting children from the evils of the modern world, the "outside" world and materialism? ( materialism used in the anthro sense, as in , not believing in spirit worlds)
Or the similarity between them and Steiner's belief in Ahriman (satan, demon) and his future incarnation on earth? Ahriman's desire to keep the earth stuck in the rigd form Steiner's higher beings battle against?

After all, with conference papers like this The Impact of Evil in our Time and the Guarding of Childhood Forces by waldorf teachers, it's obviously something the schools are there to guard against.

wilderduck · 02/04/2009 11:39

Barking - Steiner schools seek state endorsement for the same reason that homeopaths seek the endorsement of the GMC even though... no, there really is nothing sensible left to say about homeopathy. Simply: they want our money.

One comment that Ofsted makes about Steiner schools is that the turnover of teachers is unusually large. Why? We can't help wondering. Anyone living near a Steiner school (or teaching in one of the schools dealing with its fall-out) knows that there's an unusually large turnover of astonished parents too. And we know by now why that is.

Northern - whenever I read wall-to-wall woo as in that unlovely 'The Impact of Evil..' I can't help feeling the writer's having a deeply brilliant laugh at our expense. It must be satirical? Apply the tiniest pinch of heartless, freezing intellect to this and it just ... disappears up its own inanity.

I can be fairly certain there is no dragon, really I can but there's definitely still an elephant.

northernrefugee39 · 02/04/2009 12:34

Wilder- not only the turnover of teachers, the recruiting of teachers and the turnover of pupils
Frightening though it is, they are serious about dragons and St Michael, and Ahriman, Lucifer and higher spiritual beings - and this particular writer used to teach kindegarten children.

Anyone interested, there's a discussion going on here at the delightful Mothering which is enlightening...

"At the 3 schools we've been involved with it is most certainly NOT up for debate. In fact in our last experience, dare question the anthroposophical ideas and you are pretty much on your way out. I know a woman who dropped out of waldorf teacher training after her class was explicitly told, "do NOT tell the parents this, they are not ready to understand". When she questioned anything Steiner ever said she was told over and over again, "You will understand it when you're ready", which really translates to "don't question".

wilderduck · 02/04/2009 13:33

northern - Yes you're right, it's serious and potentially very harmful.

Do you think the Steiner Waldorf Schools Fellowship is working on the principle - you can fool some of the people some of the time? Thus the high turnover? That elephant's an embarrassment for many, I bet, including quite a few teachers and those trying to hang on to a living in administration/PR as big fish in a small sea of bug-eyed nutters. Whistling and looking the other way...

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