Cumnor House School Croydon

[Ellenbye]

Hi, can anyone tell me about this school?

What is good about it? What are the negatives?

Are there any good private alternatives of similar size for this school within a few miles?

Is it difficult to get a place here?

Thanks

A friend with a Reception-age ds looked at it, was easily offered a place in the Kindergarten but didn't like it, and sent hers to Royal Russell instead. Personally, I think the boys I see out and about in their uniforms always look very well-behaved and "good" little boys! It would be my first choice of a boys' Croydon school (were I in that situation!).

Other alternatives:

Elmhurst School, South Croydon (boys)
Royal Russell, Croydon (co-ed)
Warlingham Park, Warlingham (co-ed)
St Davids, Purley (co-ed)

How about you tell us what you're looking for in a school and we can suggest what might fit you best? There are a few local parents on here.

There are a number of schools around Croydon that may suit. NoNickname has given you a handy list, to which can be added the Lodge School in Purley.

I only have personal experience of Cumnor House but I know children at Elmhurst, Royal Russell and the Lodge. What sort of school are you looking for (as LadyMuck says)?

Thanks for the responses.

I would like a school that could challenge him, be it academically, in sports or music. DS is pampered at home so I would like a more real world/competitive experience at school for him.

I would like a school with a relatively large number of pupils. I don't really want small class sizes or a small year group. The more different personalities there are the better.

Whoever I casually speak to about prep schools in Croydon usually mentions Cumnor House first. Is there a particular reason for this? Is it actually very good or is it like a brand name?

Do boys need to reach a certain academic standard to be offered a place?

Well, I suppose Cumnor House is just very well known! Lots of people aren't as aware of some of the smaller schools like St.David's.

You don't want small class sizes? What do you mean by small? None of these schools are going to have huge classes!

St. David's may be too small for you. Most schools are pretty hot on sports etc. Cumnor House does have a bit of a reputation as a hothouse and certainly further up the school the children are pushed quite hard. My dcs didn't attend the Pre-Prep so I can't comment on how the little ones get on but they seem like a lovely bunch.

If you choose somewhere like Royal Russell you have the comfort of knowing you are set-up until 18!! It is a very friendly school in a beautiful setting but I don't feel it is as academically challenging as other schools (although I hear the head has great plans).

Lodge School is also in a lovely setting but again (from the grapevine) I hear it can be quite laid back.

Elmhurst does its job of getting boys into grammar schools and Whitgift Foundation schools but I have varying reports about pastoral care there.

Some downsides of Cumnor House are:
(1) the site is quite cramped and a bit of a rabbit warren (although the sports field is great);
(2) sport is quite a big thing and non-sporty boys can be a teensy bit on the sidelines;
(3) discipline can be very rigid (which may cause issues if you have a bit of a rebel on your hands) - this may not be a downside for everyone though!

Overall, I think it is a very good school and I would genuinely recommend it (and I'm not on commission!).

Have you visited the schools yet?

Wow, that was long - sorry!!!!

In terms of being the most mentioned prep school in Croydon I think that it is the only school which prepares for 13+/Common Entrance. Most of the other schools only go to 11+ or prep for their own senior schools.

It is not academically selective at 2.5 or 4. Boys in later years will be assessed, but there is a wide range of ability. Class sizes are usually in the 15-18 range in pre-prep, going up to a max of 20 or so in prep, though that depends very much of the year group - some are smaller. Currently 3 form entry, so plenty of children.

It is a competitive environment, esp in the prep school. As a result this can work against boys who are younger in the year, as the older boys have a "natural" advantage. But of course a talented/able summer born will still do well.

The other downside of it being competitive is that if you have a child who has a particular passion but insufficient talent ability at a particular stage then they may not get selected for teams/activities etc. That is not an issue in nursery/preprep where everyone is involved. But I know that some parents were dismayed to find that their football mad Year 3 child only managed to get into the "D" team (who still have fixtures against other schools but not late training for example).

The school was bought by Cognita a year ago. In general I think that this is a good thing as it gives it access to major funding. It also gives parents another option to pursue if they are unhappy with the school (there was a recent thread about a parent unhappy with Year 1 marking, and they seemed to get a good outcome from Cognita).

In terms of getting a place, I don't think that it is that hard. St Davids has fewer places for example, so whilst it operates a first come first served basis, if you have a child of 2.5 then you may already be too late say. Cumnor also operate a first come first served basis though there is an "assessment" morning or session. In practice this is just used to allocate classes - I am yet to come across anyone who has "failed".

Yes, selection for sports teams is an ongoing issue for some parents. As is homework, of which there is a great deal in the prep school.

One of the reasons I chose the school was because it is the only prep in the borough which goes up to 13. This is great if you have the kind of child who wouldn't be able to cope with senior school at 11 and it gives you a greater range of senior schools to choose from.

Hi guys

I was wondering if you can help my son is a year old, as any parent I want the best for him.

Does independant shchooling really make a difference?

Also how much are the fees on a termly basis?

Thanks
Shabhana

There are plenty of good state schools in the area, so worth looking at those first. Because of the increase in the number of flats in the area it can be harder to get into the good state schools which is when most parents panic and head to the private sector.

I think that the fees are in the order of £2,600 for preprep and £3,100 for prep, but you can check the website.

Hi Metella,

You seem to know a lot about Cumnor...can you give me more in light of the following:

In the process of choosing which school and while I do like cumnor, there are a few things that seem to niggle.

I don't think my son is very academic, although it may be too early to tell. However, I wondered how less academic children are treated. Also he is quite timid and I wondered if I would be making a mistake placing him in a school environment which is quite competitive or would this serve to toughen him up...something I wouldn't mind doing.

Finally, I read somewhere, I think on the school sit that the kids are divided into groups/classes based on their academic ability. While this sounds good in theory, are the less able children labelled?

Sorry, one final question...I have one of both sexes and wondered how do other parents manage with school runs to different school. Thinking St David's might be better to attack this problem but I know very little about this school....

HELP

BUMP

BUMP

Hi Waiting2Exhale,
I will be frank with you - I don't think Cumnor is great for timid boys but it really depends on the class they end up in. They may be fine at the beginning but things get a bit tougher as they go through the school.

I wouldn't worry too much about your ds being less academic - the school is not selective unless you are joining in later years. There is quite a wide variety of ability in my dc's classes and the teachers seem to be able to cope.

There is no "labelling" per se except higher up in the prep school (I'm talking Y7 and Y8 here).

I only have boys but I know plenty of parents who have to do the school run for Cumnor plus Old Palace / Croydon High.

St David's is a lovely little school - have you looked at it? It is not as academically pushy as Cumnor but that suits some children. I have no idea where St David's children move on to at 11, though.

Are your long-term plans 11+ or 13+ (probably too early for you to know!!!)? Cumnor is the only school in Croydon which does 13+.

Hope this helps!

Hi Metella,

Thanks for getting back....

When you say it depends on the class he is put in are you refering to the kids that will be his class mate or something else?

Also do you know how many form entries there are in reception...is it two or three?

No, nothing sinister!!! I just mean it depends on the other boys in the class!! But classes are small so bad behaviour is usually jumped on fairly efficiently.

Ds1 loves to help out with reception (this sometimes happens during "wet play" when the weather is too grim to go outside) and says they can be a bit lively but are quick to calm down when told to!

Number of forms can vary - sometimes 2, sometimes 3. This year is 3, I think.

Both dcs enjoy school (well, ds2 enjoys school as much as he is capable of doing - he thinks he goes there to see his friends and the rest of it is a bit of a distraction ).

At the risk of outing myself I have had 2 sons at Cumnor. We moved one of them, who was quieter, to St Davids.

Cumnor does very well with loud boisterous sporty clever boys. It does quite well with boisterous sporty boys and with clever boys. But if you don't fall into any of those camps then I think that there are better options to be honest. And the class mix can be vital, though since I removed my son the policy is now to mix up classes every year from reception. Whilst the classes are smaller than at state schools most are no longer "small" in private school terms. The school will go up to 20 per class if it can. St Davids caps the classes at 22, but is cheaper as well as smaller.

The behaviour at the 2 schools is radically different. The manners and behaviour exhibited at St Davids is far far better on the whole. The downside with St Davids is that the loud and boisterous boys therefore stand out and get labelled, whereas at Cumnor they would be normal!

If you have a loud or sporty boy then Cumnor is probably the best place locally. Tons of sport, plenty of opportunity to be rowdy. St Davids is fine academically and actually the destination schools are similar - Whitgift, Trinity, Caterham, Sutton grammars, and one or two may head to Cumnor at 11 to retake at 13 or opt for say Epsom which is 13+ entry. Whereas at St Davids 20-25% of children get scholarships at the next stage the proportion is greater at Cumnor.

The classes aren't arranged academically at Cumnor - not until year 6+ at any rate. Some boys will be taken out for extension work or catch up work once or twice a week, but in the main the classes are mixed ability, and I'm not convinced that enough differentiation is given across the abilities. Certainly St Davids has been an eye opener with ds2 working in different sets in each subject in Year 2.

St Davids is a warm friendly school. Our son is thriving there. But it doesn't have some of the facilities that Cumnor has eg science labs, own pool, and it is one form entry, so a lot of it is down to the mix in that class eg boy/girl split as well as personalities. And whilst they have a reasonable sports program, it isn't anywhere close to the standard at Cumnor. In ds2's class I see one incredibly sporty child, and another labelled as naughty and think that they would both do better at Cumnor. But for my quieter child St Davids is much better.

Not sure what year group you are looking at (as I assume that you can't label a 3 year old in terms of being academic!). St Davids does more extracurricular activities earlier on than Cumnor. And whereas at Cumnor lots of events are competitive, at St Davids no-one gets left out. Eg Ds1 hasn't got into a school production/show for a couple of years whereas ds2 will be in several events every year.

I think that you are wise to be considering the personality of your child and whether the school is the right fit. Despite odd gripes I do think that the school suits our older child very well. But we had major concerns as to how our younger son would do in the same environment and I'm happy that we made the right decision for him.

Sorry for the ramble! Depending on how old your son is you can always go for a trial day and see what the class mix is like (at either school). If he is still young then you will get a good early idea of the year group by looking at Treetops - a large number come through there.

Agree with GrowlingTiger re the rather boisterous goings on at Cumnor! However, ds1 is a quiet, reflective, completely non-sporty boy and he has been fine there. Again I think it is due to the class mix - there are quite a few non-sporty types in his group and they do stick together.

I don't know what year GT's ds is in but, from my experience, as they go through the school the non-sporty types come more to the fore and the sportier ones get pushed to the background. This is partly because academic achievement is more important later on so sport is more side-lined.

However, every school has different strengths and weaknesses - nowhere is perfect and you may find St David's (or somewhere similar) a better fit.

Good luck with your decision!!

"from my experience, as they go through the school the non-sporty types come more to the fore"

If for "non-sporty" you substitute academic or clever, then I agree with you. I have yet to see much opportunity for the non sporty and non-academic tbh. I think that the main pro for those is that CHS do let you repeat a year so you have the advantage of a year on your classmates.

Lots and lots to consider....brill!

All your comments have lessened my concerns somewhat about Cumnor as I do like the school very much. Not sure though if I'd want my son repeating a year...how does that work in practice...he can hardly take his 11+ at 12+... or can he .

Have booked an appointment to see St David's next week...this will surely help.

Will accept one of these two offers after that and hopefully my son will love my choice. .

Out of interest do any of you have an comments on Reedham Park or Oakhryst Grange?

Yes, GT, a lot of boys fall into the "sporty" or "clever" camps but there are still a fair number of boys who are neither (she says looking obliquely at ds2 ).

Sorry, Waiting2Exhale, I don't know anyone at Reedham Park or Oakhyrst Grange (although I'm fairly certain there is at least one MNer with a dc at Oakhyrst).

I think once you see St David's you will have a better idea. As GT says it is quite different to CH but it is a lovely school and may be the right one for you.

I know some children at Lodge and get the impression it has a similar vibe to St David's. Have you considered it at all?

How old is your son? Is he old enough to have a trial day at each? Always interesting to gauge their reactions.

Cumnor has a large range of boys. Most of them find their place, and relatively few leave - if anything the classes seem to just get bigger!

Some children do repeat a year, but it is relatively rare - no more than 1 or 2 a year. If you do repeat then you end up staying in the private system throughout, and certainly the independent schools don't seem to have any difficulties with keeping you out of your year. The grammar schools aren't really an issue as if you were struggling to that extent in the first place then frankly you have little chance of getting in. But I think one of the good things about the school is that they do seem to bring all of the boys along to a reasonable standard, and in general boys don't get left behind. Given that many boys tend to struggle with presentation and handwriting etc, I sometimes think that it is helpful certainly in the early years that all of the work pinned up on boards is done by boys!

A friend has a son in Yr4 at Reedham Park. I think that the difficulty there is that there are only 4 boys in the class (and therefore year), and her relatively well-behaved son ends up being viewed as a naughty child. I imagine that a similar issue could happen at St Davids or Lodge - it must be difficult to get ensure a good mix of sexes across the year group. I did look at St Davids for my son some years ago and discovered that he would have been one of 4 boys in that year group, so decided against. But it was a lovely school.

There are a number of good schools in the area, so plenty of choice and you're bound to find one that suits you. Hard to beat the facilities at Cumnor though imo.

Hi guys,

Son is 3 so looking to join reception in 2010.

Metella I did have a look at Lodge earlier this year but, though nice, it felt more like a (and don't take this the wrong way) rich kids school than any of the others I'd seen. TBH I personally will be working very hard to send my boy to a private school and don't want him to feel he is the poor kid in the class, iykwim...I'm sure it is a lovely school though, but possibly not for us .

Ladymuck you said it is 'relatively rare' for kids to repeat a year but 1 or 2 every year sounds quite common place to me and far from rare. Is this at the request of the school or parent? What happens if you don't want your son to repeat a year, will he be asked to leave? Really don't think, (or rather hope), my son will be in that position but must ask nonetheless as I think this is very important. IMO, and I may be wrong, in the early years (reception/year 1) it possibly doesn't matter too much, but as the child progresses through the school with his normal year group and friends, this could be a real problem for his self esteem. Isn't extra tuition a better way forward? At what stage, if any, is repeating a year not considered an option for the school or parent?

Totally understand if their struggling that much that they wouldn't get into grammar anyway, but staying in the private sector really isn't an option for me. I am basically trying at this early stage to give my son the best start so that he is in the best position to obtain a grammar school place later on. Or scholarship which would make me consider continuing to pay these fees.

Also, you mentioned a friend's child went or goes to Reedham, can you give me anymore on this school? Is it particularly academic? I know in it's brochure it states it prepares their kids for entrance exams but what porportion of kids sitting the exam actually get offered places? Sounds like a small school... with ridiculously low fees...is your friend's child happy there? Is it a case of you get what you pay for or is this just an understated school with limited resources but great academic achievements...?

Wow very long...sorry... but do all come back with your thoughts please!

Reedham first - don't think that it is exceptionally academic, but is OK. A large %age seem to go onto non-selective state schools.

That said if you are looking at grammar school entrance, then be aware that most Cumnor parents who opt for grammar schools do get their children privately tutored. Cumnor is really set up for going onto independent sector, and relatively few boys go to the grammar schools - if they are bright enough to pass then they will typically have got a scholarship to Trinity/Whitgift. That said Metella has a son higher up the school than me, so may have a different angle. But the Wallington exam is very early in Year 6, and I'm not sure that there is much specific preparation in Year 5. Certainly the first term of Year 6 is very exam prep focussed.

When I say "relatively rare" in terms of staying down a year, I mean that it isn't the first thing that happens to a child (and the year groups can be up to about 60 boys). In my dcs yeargroups children have been kept down at Reception and Year 2. Certainly you would have a few discussions before this happened, but at the end of the day if your son didn't keep up then you would essentially be encouraged to consider other options (ie leave). Bear in mind the school is non selective so will have some pupils who would be entitled to support either via a statement or under School Action/School Action Plus in the state system. The school does have a fulltime SENco as well as additional support for those who are struggling. In the instances that I am aware of, the boys who are repeating a year are still in the fourth quartile of their new classes.

I'm surprised to hear that Lodge gave you that impression, Waiting2Exhale. My friend whose dc is there is not at all rich or posh! I do think the senior school side is a bit like that though. There is quite a variety of parents at Cumnor so you won't feel out of place at all.

Re grammar schools, Cumnor is very specific that it does not prep for Wallington as it is so early in the year. The boys have covered the Maths syllabus and done some VR but that is about it.

There is also no specific prep for the multiple choice element of Sutton Grammar School and I agree with LadyMuck that most parents tutor for the local grammar schools.

Do bear in mind that the majority of grammar school entrants come from state primary schools so if your long-term plan is grammar school you may find state primary + tutoring just as good an option as prep school. You won't get all the bells and whistles of prep school but that isn't always what people want.

As LadyMuck says, Cumnor is very geared towards independent senior schools and the majority of boys go to Whitgift or Trinity. However, each year there are a few that go to more top name schools like Westminster at 13+. The Headmaster is very keen on 13+ (not surprisingly!!) but most boys still leave at 11+, with a few going at 10+.

Hope this helps!