why do mumsnetters think it is not ok to send your dc to a private school?

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i am amazed by some of the ideas on here.
why do mnetters think it is so wrong?

Gosh, that's an extraordinary way of thinking about what you might need to defend here Cammelia - about what people might find ethically contentious. Really astonishing, in fact.

Perhaps I was wrong to read the use on here of the housing (or worse, the shoe-shopping analogy) as defensive/anxious - it has certainly smacked of protesting too much when I've heard it used in real life, but I guess it might be used in different ways. I still think Scummymummy is right to expose its basic falsity though.

no worries, ahundredtimes. I'm never sure what I think about the moving house to get into catchment areas argument, anyway. Most secondary schools seem to have catchments that cover a pretty mixed area in somewhere like London where poverty and affluence are cheek by jowl. Having said that, I can't even work out how the catchment areas for the schools round here work, tbh. The kids from my children's primary seem to go mostly to a fairly close academy with a rather poor reputation or a comp that sounds fine but is almost 3 miles away. There are loads of other nearer schools which are apparently not gettable inable to for one reason or another. No doubt I will be doing loads of threads on it this time next year!

Oh fgs, people can send their children to any school they want to. Doesn't bother me.

I am however glad that mine are at state schools that I consider good enough, cos otherwise we'd be even skinter than we already are. And glad that we have Morrisons and Lidl nearby, so I don't have to bankrupt myself even further by ordering my groceries in from Ocado.

Okay, it's not much of a philosophy of life, but honestly, I really don't understand why people get so exercised what other people do with their money.

Oh god SM, I think secondary stuff a minefield tbh. I've done a thread about it already

Oh zazette, I think using words like disingenuous, dim and queasily defensive deserve that kind of snappy response.

Our whole lives should be guilt trips (see my reference earlier to South Africa)

I agree with ScummyMummy too. The point is, the question was asked, why are some MN posters against private education? And she has answered the reason why. That isn't to say people shouldn't do as they wish. But that is the reason why some of us don't. Also I don't agree with the analogy 'you can afford better shoes or something so you would buy them' or something along those lines, well actually I CAN afford better things than I have, but I don't buy them! Just don't feel the need, eg more expensive car, house.

But the real bugbear with me is that somehow people who pay for private education feel that somehow their child will somehow be more intelligent, as the exam results will inevitably bear when they get all the As, A*s at GCSE, which they undoubtedly will, unless half witted, at a private school. Some will be, but some most certainly won't be, they just will have been taught in smaller classes and all the other things you pay for in order to get those results. Now if you send them to a state school and they get those results, well.......but that is what you are paying the money for.

Not sure I understand the argument, bfl. Unless you have strong socialist principles like my brother appears to have, I cannot understand why parents don't want the best for their children whatever that may be. I certainly want the best for my ds and chose what I considered to be the best school for him. End of story.

I don't see why those who choose private have to justify their reasons and vv for those choosing state. Does it matter?

A bit of an aside, this, but ...

Barnsleybelle, you say " I want my children to be able to play at home with their school friends etc etc."

I can see what you mean. However, don't you think there's something to be said for having friends at home whom you don't go to school with? As a (privately educated) child, I spent most of my spare time playing with the children who lived in our little cluster of roads, only one of whom went to the same school as me. Right up until I went to university, I positively enjoyed having friends who were separate from my school life (I often felt I'd seen quite enough of the girls at school, by the time I came home). My DD is about to start at a prep school, but I am deliberately continuing to maintain her friendships with local children because - so I hope - she will have lots of different friends in the long term!

As another aside...
state school doesn't always equal local friends (at least, not where I live).
Maybe it's just a peculiarity of where I live, but few of the children in my village actually attend the local school. They tend to go off to other village schools. yet people drive miles to attend the school in my village.
DD spent 3 unhappy years at the local school, making one local-ish friend in the process (everyone else in her class was driven in from the surrounding environs).
Much happier at her new school - which is a short drive away and where, incidently, she has made friends with another girl from our village.

We really don't think our children will somehow be more intelligent, bagsforlife. They will get the grades they merit. You do know that the examiners don't know whether they're marking state school or private school scripts, don't you? They don't sit there going 'Oooh - private school! No need to mark that batch - A*s all round, obviously!'

I have a student in my A level set who is going to get a D. If he works very hard, he can improve that to a C. If he was in a state school, he would get a D. If he worked very hard, he could improve it to a C. Why do you think his IQ is going to dramatically and magically alter because he's in a private school?

That is EXACTLY my point, Slayerette, (even more wearily) no doubt he will get a C. His IQ hasn't dramatically improved.

And yes I DO know that examiners don't know whether they are marking state or private school papers.

You have just illustrated the exact point I was making. Thank you.

It's not that the examiners mark any differently, that's pretty obvious, but nevertheless, some private school pupils do get inflated grades which don't necessarily reflect their genuine innate ability. Probably due to small classes (in part) but more likely because of different teaching styles - eg my mate teaches in private and says a lot of the kids really want spoonfeeding, they are incredibly docile and are motivated by being given the right methods to pass exams with high marks. I definitely came across a few fellow students at University who'd been in private school and had ridiculously high grades for their ability. And while some people may describe that as doing the best for your kids, many of us feel that educationally it isn't.

I don't think anyone should have to justify their reasons for sending their children to private school either, MollieO. I am merely pointing out the answer to the question originally asked. That isn't to say everyone has to agree with it

Really? Is this what all mnetters think?

What a daft op.

Re small class sizes; So if state primaries were somehow to cap classes at 20 all the parents would be complaining, would they? As any results gained you not reflect a child's true ability.

Who's to say that small class sizes aren't just helping children reach their potential rather than artificially bumping their grades? That it's not that children in larger classes are achieving their 'actual' potential rather that their teacher's time is so stretched that they haven't done as well as they could have or should have.

in answer to the op:

the coaches they're all ferried around in here kills the roads and cause congestion

Dotto..... That's a fair point. I take that on board..

I really honestly don't have anything at all against private education. I am a great advocate for each to their own.

I do however, thoroughly love the community aspect the primary school embraces in my village. When it comes time for high school my children will have to leave the village so i may have a different slant on things then i suppose!!

Barnsley - yes, I'm with you on each to their own!

Aaaaargh at the very thought of my little DCs ever going secondary school...

"the coaches they're all ferried around in here kills the roads and cause congestion"

Not as much congestion as all the children ferried to schools by their parents' cars.

I agree, around here the coaches ease congestion. Every DC in my village (a large one)has to get transport to secondary school-if they went by car we would be gridlocked!

So, all of you who think private education is unfair and state fair (over simplified) it rather) here is how it works where I am.

DSs go to a very good state primary school. Yes, when we moved we chose our area with care. However, there is only 1 decent state secondary school plus a fair number of faith schools (and this is the case right across the borough TBH). We are not religeous.

The decent secondary school has a "feeder school" system whereby all the pupils who apply from 5 or so local primaries get in. DSs school is not one of these feeder schools despite being nearer than a fair few of the chosen ones. The selection criteria for the secondary is:

1. Children in care
2. Feeder children
3. A 15% selective exam
4. Catchment area of about 1.5miles
5. Anyone else by virtue of distance (expanded catchment area)

Now, there is clearly a very good chance that DSs would not get in despite living well within catchment, simply because children who live further away and go to the randomly selected "feeders" choose to go there. Pretty much the only other option is a state school with a horrendous reputation which has police outside on numerous occasions.

Is that any fairer? We can pay and we will pay to send the SmallDragons to local private schools which are no further away than the state one. I don't feel guilty about that at all (as it happens, they offer generous bursaries to allow less well off children to attend).

DSs would do well at the local sate school. At the private school they will fly. We can comfortably afford to send them there so why on earth shouldn't we? The state system is no fairer here.

DS1 will go to secondary in 2010 (eek). I looked at the state school and felt sick at the though of him going off to secondary school. I went to the open day at the private school and felt excited at the thought of him going. I feel I've chosen the right school for him (and his brother.)

AlienBump, your comment about your children being no more important than anyone elses intrigues me, surely being YOUR children they are?

I know I am my children's advocate, if I don't speak for them and jump through hoops to ensure they recieve the best chances in life (one of which being a private education IMHO)then no-one else (apart from DH obviously) is going to...

Yes I would like it if every child could have a decent education but to me your logic seems like me saying I'm not going to feed my children every day because some children in LEDCs don't get fed each day.

These tiny little buddles of joy are my responsibility, if we (me and DH) don't provide for them then who else is going to?

helicopter parent alert

I think that you are quite correct ADragonis4LNJH. I lived in an area where a simple look at the DCs coming out of the local secondary made it a non starter for me. We moved. I don't see that that is any different to paying-it was still an option that took money.
I would like a good education for all DCs but my DCs are my priority, they get one chance and I have done my utmost to make sure it is a good one, I think most parents do the same.