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Original poster

arabella weir on why we must send our kids to state schools

614 replies

nowirehangers · 03/09/2008 13:55

Arabella on why she would never send her kids to private schools
What do people think?
Fwiw I find the tone unbelievably smug. I also disagree with a lot of what's being said. I don't think all parents send thier kids to private schools so they can avoid the great unwashed, though some do. I would love my dcs to go to a state school for the reasons she mentions.
What puts me off is the fact the teaching is so often mediocre - as the Chief Inspector of Schools admitted this week. Of course there are so incredible teachers in the state system but I fear there are a lot of second-rate one too. I went to a state primary where the teaching was awful then was moved in to a private school and couldn't believe how much more stimulating the atmosphere was and how much more inspirational the teachers were. I dislike the idea of my dcs mixing only with posh kids, so I'm going to put mye experience down as an unlucky one and give the local state school the benefit of the doubt but if I feel they're being taught badly I will remove them and remortgage the house or whatever to make it work. Anyway, that's my opinion, interested in others.

OP posts:
floaty · 09/09/2008 14:43

Surely there are children who are bright but sensitive.Why does being bright have to mean tough cookie as well.There is a thread elswhere on this site at the moment from a mother whose dd is having this problem at the moment.

FioFio · 09/09/2008 14:45

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nooka · 09/09/2008 14:45

Sorry scary, I was talking about primary age, which I believe is where the class size debate mainly features. I agree at secondary smaller classes are more effective, and TAs are for individual support (mainly because secondary kids are supposed to be less disruptive - lol).

Hulababy · 09/09/2008 15:07

I have seen many a bright child not reach their true potential due to the classroom environment they have been in in a bad school.

Bright children can be senesitieve too, and not all have thick enough skins to stand up to those who might bully them.

And in a classroom fullof children who don;t wont to work, a teacher's time is spet on classroom managemnt - not on teaching, so again the brighter or well behaved child loses out again.

I am sorry but IME it is not always true that bright children will do well anyway. Yes, they may do well ompared to thosein their school. But often many do not reach their full true potential, because of the environment they are in.

Me and my siblings went to a not greate state comp. We all did fine, all went to university and got good jobs, etc. But did we reach our true potental? I know I didn't at school - I was too quiet and shy to open my mouth, and the school teachers didn't have the time in a rowdy classroom to help me further on. My brother suffered horrendous bullying and only did really well after getting out of the school and going to college - went on to get a first - but that was in no way attircuted to his school education. My sister did exceptionally well, but we found the support wasn't there for her when she was achieving so well, and above others so was at school with. More examples of where teacher time is tied up dealing with the pupils who don't want to work, and those who do get ignored. It does happen.

smallwhitecat · 09/09/2008 15:10

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Hulababy · 09/09/2008 15:13

You are right smallwhitecat - a good school can deal with a wide range of abilities and is able to fully differentiate for the pupils in that school. It is in the not so good schools that this can become a real issue though.

Original poster
nowirehangers · 09/09/2008 15:14

hear, hear hula!
I spent my first two years at a state primary being told to go and sit in the corner and read (I'd been at school abroad before and learnt to read there) while the teachers dealt with the other children who couldn't read
In fact all I did was read, I was taught no maths or anything else since I was considered capable of looking after myself.
From what I gather this was in the laissez faire 70s when the ethos was to let kids learn at their own pace and now the ethos is completely the opposite and all SATS oriented. Either way, though, I suspect kids who are brighter than average (I probably wasn't but had a head start because I'd been at a small private school before ) are sometimes left to fester. My parents pulled me out and I flourished in a new environment where the teachers actually had the time to focus on each member of the class.

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FioFio · 09/09/2008 15:16

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Hulababy · 09/09/2008 15:16

I remember at primary school my little sister used to get through the clss work very fst. When she had completed er work, nio extension was given. Instead she was told she could sit on the carpet and read - which was her favouite thing to do at the time (but not extending her in anyway) or t help another child instead.

scaryteacher · 09/09/2008 15:17

Oh fgs FioFio - grow up. My ds does his homework because I make him do it; but he has begun to give up answering in class because he says he gets ribbed about it.

Bright doesn't mean having armour plating like a challenger tank; I used to get teased at comp for being a 'posh' kid and for trying to achieve and behaving. It's easy to say ignore it - it takes time and maturity to do that - at 11 and 12 it's very difficult. I have dealt with several bright students whose lives have been made unpleasant, to say the least, by others who aren't interested in their education; peer pressure isn't just about having the right trainers, it can be applied in all sorts of subtle and not so unsubtle ways, including shutting people out because they are seen as swots or geeks.

Hulababy · 09/09/2008 15:19

FioFio - of course they are not. A good teacher likes a wide range of abilities mixes and is able to work effectively with all her pupils,a dn differentiate fully with them.

But for a bright child academics may be the important potential for them - and they should have the opportunity to reach their potential in school. They shouldn't be left to their own devices whilst a teacher has to deal with othr children all the time. And I am afraid that this does happen, esp in less good schools.

And these are children - they need help and support to reah their potential. they can't do it all alone alll the time.

scaryteacher · 09/09/2008 15:22

I like teaching both ends of the spectrum, s well as those in the middle. Each has it's own challenges. One of the best lessons on abortion I ever did was with a group of year 10 lads who were considered so 'special' (EBD) that I had a TA for each pair of them in the room with me (3 TAs to 6 lads). Equally, you can get through the necessary work faster with the bright ones, and look at the more esoteric facets of a subject with them. Both are rewarding.

FioFio · 09/09/2008 15:35

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Hulababy · 09/09/2008 15:37

Fio - in my experience no. Both genders can be equally as distracted.

Homework is ony a small part of the overall education. So, completing homework helps yes. But in a bad school the homework set might be rubbish anway. Wjhat happens int he classroom is very very important IMO.

suey2 · 09/09/2008 15:38

agree, floaty. I remember being quite miserable at times and fell off the rails a little in my second year at secondary school in an effort to fit in. It took me a few years to not care about being bright, but i still underachieved at school and didn't feel that i was encouraged to reach my academic potential. I only felt comfortable when i did my masters degree and now i run my own business.

Litchick · 09/09/2008 15:49

I was very when my neice told me she didn't put her hand up in class 'because it's not cool.'
She's nine and very bright but already feeling social pressure to undrachieve.

nooka · 09/09/2008 17:15

Private schools don't guarantee no disruption though. The worst behaved children I have ever met were at the "best" school I ever went to. They were arrogant and rude because they thought they were better than their teachers. Some of them hated being at school, and would have dropped out if they could have got away with it, but because their parents wanted them to be there (it was a boarding school) that's where they were. Some of the teachers could not cope with this at all. We had this lovely guy who had been a high level researcher at CERN. I'm sure he looked fab on the brochure, but he couldn't manage a class of 10 A level students.

What everyone wants is for their child to be at a good school, where their talents are cherished. Private schools do not have a monopoly on that.

halogen · 09/09/2008 17:39

I thought this was quite a funny and good response to the Arabella Weir article:

www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/martin_samuel/article4709603.ece

Umlellala · 09/09/2008 17:55

That article made me want to punch him.

Dottoressa · 09/09/2008 17:58

OMG - Yet another reason not to read the Guardian. I would read the whole of Arabella W's piece, but the first paragraph made me feel too ill to continue!

Dottoressa · 09/09/2008 18:00

But I do like the Times response. My private-school DCs are also watchers of the Tardis, not dwellers within...

TheFallenMadonna · 09/09/2008 18:05

Blimey.

Private school is a "forlorn attempt to level the playing field"

Ha ha ha ha ha!

Really, send your children where you like to school. Honestly.

But don't pretend you are sending your child to a private school to even out social inequalities.

Original poster
nowirehangers · 09/09/2008 18:13

Nooka, of course private schools don't come with any guarantee - they aren't washing machines
If you're interested in private you need to investigate thoroughly like you would anything you want to spend that amount of money on. If you think the teaching standards, extracurriculats offered etc are not worth the cash then don't buy
Plenty of people on here clearly think it's worth the money and I doubt they made their decisions without careful weighing up the options like I am doing now

OP posts:
Umlellala · 09/09/2008 18:15

agree, FallenMadonna. Do you think he really believes that crap?

Dottoressa · 09/09/2008 19:55

And does Arabella W really believe her crap? Sadly, I think the answer is yes.

I used to work with someone who lived in a grammar school area. He was always going on about the evils of private schools, and how his child would never be seen dead within ten miles of one.

Another colleague also detested private schools. I disliked this man intensely for a whole host of reasons. However, I did admire him for sending his son to a private school despite all his "principles"! Even he had to admit that the state options weren't feasible...