arabella weir on why we must send our kids to state schools

[nowirehangers]

Arabella on why she would never send her kids to private schools
What do people think?
Fwiw I find the tone unbelievably smug. I also disagree with a lot of what's being said. I don't think all parents send thier kids to private schools so they can avoid the great unwashed, though some do. I would love my dcs to go to a state school for the reasons she mentions.
What puts me off is the fact the teaching is so often mediocre - as the Chief Inspector of Schools admitted this week. Of course there are so incredible teachers in the state system but I fear there are a lot of second-rate one too. I went to a state primary where the teaching was awful then was moved in to a private school and couldn't believe how much more stimulating the atmosphere was and how much more inspirational the teachers were. I dislike the idea of my dcs mixing only with posh kids, so I'm going to put mye experience down as an unlucky one and give the local state school the benefit of the doubt but if I feel they're being taught badly I will remove them and remortgage the house or whatever to make it work. Anyway, that's my opinion, interested in others.

I was only setted for Maths and French at my private school, and whilst it was selective there was certainly a range of abilities within subjects. My dh's school (and the school I went to at Sixth Form) did single setting only. You were "a", "b", "c" etc, and the subjects you were allowed to take were defined by that set. So he had to drop from the A set to the B set in order to take computing rather than Latin. At my boarding school people only tended to be friends with kids in the same set (plus thse in their house), which further limited the range of people they came across. Not only is this really stupid (I was very good at Maths and terrible at French for example, and I can see my son will never be as good at English type subjects due to his dyslexia than he is at maths and science), but it breeds arrogance in the topsetters.

Message withdrawn

cod - it's not just "people think". It's a serious problem. I have personal experience of this but, much more importantly, it is a political issue here in France.

I don't know what sort of schools scaryteacher has experience of, but to say that 'most' schools only set in core subjects seems way off the mark from what I know!! I think some people are very out of touch with the state sector. Many schools set right across the board.
Jeez.... who'd want to live in France though!

parliamentary answer on setting

Surely it depends on the size of the school?

Comprehensive schools FTR - 4 of them that I've taught in. It depends on the LEA and what the Head teachers allow as well. I teach Humanities, and apart from my stint in a private school, there has not been setting for non-core subjects in any of them. That's in Plymouth and Cornwall LEAs btw.

Mil is governor of 3 comps in Hampshire, and they don't set for non-core subjects either - it's mixed ability.

Many schools may set right across the board, but the correlation to that is that others don't. Depends on location. The Parliamentary answer seems to indicate that the majority of lessons aren't setted, or maybe I'm reading it wrong.

I don't think that teaching in the state sector means that I'm out of touch with it do you?

www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/martin_samuel/article4709603.ece

Finally somebody who understands why this woman's veiws are totally irrelevent,Arabella Weir is so well connected that it wouldn't matter if her children spent most of their childhood under a stone they would still be successful because they will still get a hearing.Does anyone really think that it didn't help Giles and Victoria Coren to get published in the Times when they were only teenagers that their father was alan Coren who had a reular column or that Libby Purves daughter would also have a column.I don't begrudge them their advantages but please don't claim that they are in the same position as the rest of us or indeed most of the rest of the children in her daughters primary school class.

I don't necessarily disagree with her sentiments and I know that I am immensely priviliged to be able to choose to pay for an independent school for my children but I do think that someone who knows how many council estates her child walks through is not as oblivious as she claims .When her daughter writes to Dr Who she will get an answer ,my children didn't and to be honest nor did I expect them to .My ds1 wants to work in radio and it will be a hard graft ,if you look at most of the youngsters in the media you will find that an awful lot have one or more parents in the business already.Like I say I don't resnt it but she isn't in the same position as most of us who just want to do the best we can whether that is state or independent

When she has a child with severe specific learning difficulties in a county where there is a freeze on descretionary statements and she is faced with very little support in the one secondary in the town, or an independent special school where he has made three years academic progress in one year ,you tell me which she would choose ,would she really see her child sink when she could afford to save him .

How dare she comment on the choices i have made for my children ,I wouldn't dream of commenting on her choice which I am sure she made for all the right reasons in the best interests of her children and her family

I'm glad you posted the follow on article. Saved me the trouble. I was laughing out loud on the train this am.

Well where are the Guardianistas? Gone all quiet now, ain'tcha?

As for the class size debate, this is interesting also:
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2710004/OECD-education-report-British-classes-among-biggest-in-developed-wo rld.html

It drives me INSANE when people go all smug about going state and then it turns out to be some school in Camden (usually Camden School for Girls) which bears about as much relation to the average inner city comp as Tiffin or suchlike.

I too want my son to be educated in a school with a rainbow of colours and nationalities which is why he is now at a private school. In his State school, out of 58 children in his year, there were 3 non-muslims, yes it was 95% Bengali Muslim, talk about a lack of cultural/ religious/ everything else deiversity!

Of course no doubt I'll be labelled a racist for pointing this out despite the fact that it is absolutely fine for Guardian-readers to declare that they would never send their children private because of the dominance of white children.

Scaryteacher, thanks for that article - interesting that the average class size in UK is 26. I would imagine that for good state schools, that figure would be 30 or even more (due to successful appeals). Ironically, the better the school, the bigger the class size?

I grew up in Singapore - in my time, state primary schools had a class size of 40. But there is also a lot more homogeniety amongst the pupils than in UK (not saying that it is a good or bad thing) ie it was rare to have non-native Singaporeans attending and the schools could therefore cope better with bigger class sizes.

Floaty, brilliant article!

Yuk. What an unpleasant article. Arabella might have been a bit smug, but that guy was really unpleasant. Talk about a chip on your shoulder. Of course it is easier to achieve if your parents have done so. There is lots of research that says the biggest predictor of success is the level of education of your mother. I imagine that if his kids wanted to be sports journalists that would be easier that for someone coming in with no connections.

That report does ignore the role of staff other than teachers though. We have moved from the UK to the US, and classes are about the same size, but there are no support staff. In England the children always had one, and often two whole class TAs. Here there are specialist staff (we have a science teacher, a music teacher, and art teacher and a specialist maths teacher) but the children are always taught as a whole class. I wonder how those teachers are counted in the stats.

Yes, I imagine that Samuels Junior will have no problem finding work placements on the Times.

His real issue appears to be that her kids will have a bigger leg up than his, and that he's had to pay.

The type of education parents opt for their children is a personal choice be it state, private, home schooled etc. But they all share the same fundamental desire which is to provide the best education choice for their kids. The "best" option can vary widely on where they live, discretionary income, what the school offers to name just a few. And everyone ought to accept that parents will have differing views and respect this. What gets me angry is when writers or other parents try to convince everyone else that their decision is the "best". In this regard Arabella Weir is and Martin Samuel are the worst offenders.

I, on the other hand, think that Arabella's real issue is unremarkable-child-of-famous-parent syndrome

i don't think martin samuels was tryng to tell anyone what their choice should be at all, whereas arabella weir certainly was.

I have to agree, there were no arabellas at my state schools..

Um, I read it in a hurry but I don't think MS mentioned his children at all. I'm not even sure he has any

AW was calling parents who chose private education racist snobs and declaining why she would not make that decision...fine no one is forcing her .

Martin Samuals was not comenting on state school parents or on any parents choice but he was pointing out that AW is not qualified to lecture other parents on their choices but she is in a very priviliged position herself .

In effect he was saying I don't comment on your choice , don't comment on mine.At no time did he say that she was wrong to make the decision she made, just that she shouldn't cricise other people for making a different decision based on their own very different circumstances

Sorry declaiming!

Yes he did mention his children- he talks about picking them up with "Peter the plumber".

These two really do take the biscuit - her bragging about her children walking through a council estate and him showing off about rubbing shoulders with a plumber and a builder.

but i think the point was that arabella weir was stigmatising the parents of children who go to private school, whereas samuels was saying that there is diversity: much like others have described on this thread

I just think that public ranting about another person in such an unpleasant way (and although I agree with where he is coming from with Sarah Palin thought that was really unpleasant too) is a bit off. From the two articles I know who I'd rather meet at the school gate!

Nooka - it was quite common for me to be teaching a class of 28/30 (for one GCSE class it was 35), without a TA. If there was a TA, it was for a specified child, not to help me out.