statement in pre-school?

[Jimjams]

Just wondered whether anyone's child has been statemented whilst still at pre-school. I'm about to request one from the LEA- mainly to attempt to safeguard DS 1's one to one help he gets whilst there (they're currently threatening to reduce it from 15 hours to 7.5 hours per week), but also to try and pin down responsibility for SALT and OT. The nursery are in agreement- they say they can't cope with him without one to one (and I agree - if his one to one was cut he'd have to reduce the hours he went there- currently 16). He's 3.5 at the moment and I would like him to stay at the nursery until the term after he's 5. I'd be very interested to hear of anyone's experiences. (BTW they're trying to reduce the hours as they have to make half a million worth of cuts from the education budget next year- his needs haven't changed at all).

No personal experience, Jimjams, but it sounds like a good idea if it will let you 'ring fence' your ds's support. Not directly linked but www.portage.org.uk/index.html do pre school home education for children with extra needs. They maybe able to put you in contact with someone? Good luck.

thanks hmb- we have portage already. I think my portage worker will be a bit aghast - I've already been on the phone to the lea trying to find out exactly what is going on with ds1's support. Everyone passed the buck back and forth, although the phone call seems to have caused a few ripples. My portage woker is very kind- but she seems to have absolute faith in the system i'm very lucky that DS1's nursery manager is the most wonderful person alive and battles and battles for autistic kids so we get lots of support from her.

Round the houses again?? Is the schools special needs co-ordinator any good/use? They may be able to give you a few leads. Was your son diagnosed by an Ed Psych? And are they any help?? Rotten situation for you to be in. Special needs provision sucks.

the nursery manager is the senco- and she is fantastic. she is sending me a letter saying that without one to one they won't be able to provide for him (useful ammo to send in with the statement request). He was dxed by a consultant paediatrician and clinical physch. Haven't seen the ed psych yet but most don't seem to know their a* from their elbow The LEA haevn't actually cut his hours yet- I'm not meant to know that they plan to- luckily the nursery manager told me- otherwise it would have happened before I'd known what was going on. I'm just making sure that they know that if they do they will have one big fight on their hands. NOw I just need to track down their statement on their web page talking about the importance of early intervention ha ha ha

Ds2 is coming up for 2 Jimjams and we will be starting the statementing process in February probably, so everything "should" be in place for when he gets to school age, and hopefully before that, ready for when he attends the nursery he is down for. If I find anything useful out I will pass it on

thanks lou. I'm still seething because the pre-school advisory said I should use dla to pay for his one-to-one. Not sure who's paying for the private speech therapy, speech therapy materials, sensory integration, cleaner (as he goes ape when the hoover's on- so I need someone to come in while he's out), nappies, gluten free diet, bread machine... I could go on an on. That's like saying child benefit should be used to buy school text books. Grrrrr.

i spoke to IPSEA today- they were very helpful- I highly recommend them.

I know, some people don't think before they speak do they?

Is your ds under a dietician? I only ask because my ds is allergic to wheat dairy and soya (and disposable nappies!) and he gets a lot of food on prescription because of it. It might be worth finding out if you can get it too, these foods can be expensive, which considering they often taste so foul almost seems illegal!

Message withdrawn

Hi Jimjams,

My thoughts about the statementing process for what they're worth:

*It takes time- about 6 months if they keep within the statutory framework and the instances when they truly do this are few and far between. Very frustrating for parents, especially if, like you, their child's support in nursery/school is dependant on the statement. It's worth asking for interim support from the LEA once it becomes clear that they are going to statement, though.

*To ease hassles, make sure you and any key "onside" professionals hand in your SA1s and SA2s as early as possible and definitely before the deadline. If you can I would advise chasing such professsionals to send in their written input yourself- or getting a voluntary organisation to do that for you- rather than waiting for the LEA to do so. IME they don't bother and the statement is either delayed or goes ahead without input from some key people. Particularly important that people like your son's private speech therapist have their say, I'd have thought, and they may not think to ask her if she's outwith the NHS system, so it's important that you make it clear that you want her to contribute a report, if you do.

*When you get your draft statement look EXTREMELY carefully at the part 1- the description of your boy- as this has huge impact on the provision that they recommend. Oftentimes this is an utter joke and parents do not recognise their own offspring... If this occurs with you TELL THEM SO at the earliest opportunity- you have a fortnight in which to this. Essentially the statement draws from all the SA2 contributions given by parents and involved professionals but the weight they give to some comments over others can be COMPLETELY baffling IME. I see things like:

"Jed is a happy five year old boy who enjoys playing with action men. He can recognise his name and can identify 4 colours. Jed is able to recognise simple shapes such as a circle, square and triangle blah blah, blah. Jed has special educational needs in the area of: social and communication difficulties. FINITO"

all the time. Well, from that Jed sounds just fine, really, and quite frankly is not going to get more that the minimum support available even though he needs it desperately because, although all the things mentioned are true, he cannot cope without his familiar routine, finds it actively PAINFUL to be in a room full of noisy kids, throws ferocious temper tantrums, needs someone to oversee his PECS communication system, is still in nappies etc etc etc. All these things should be in the description... People will of course have mentioned these facts in the SA2 reports but, whether through accident or design, all the salient facts that could lead to a coherent and helpful provision for the child rarely find their way onto the relevant parts of the statement without lots of fuss on the part of parents.

That's all I've got time for for now. HTH, Jimjams, and good luck with the statementing. I'll post more if I think of it.

Ooh Scummy thanks, that'll be handy for me too in February!

scummy- you star- thank you very much. very useful Your description of jed could be ds1 Thanks podmog as well.

lou33- we saw a dietician but she was absolutely hopeless- gave me information that was wrong (luckily I knew it was wrong- and was able to confirm it was wrong0. She spent the whole time telling me that we couldn't get anything on prescrition as only coeliacs are allowed that (this is despite their being a bunch of research evidence for the efficiancy of the gluten free diet in some cases of autism- she was right about this though). I asked her about ways to encourage a wider diet ( he eatsv gluten free bread, cheese spread, apples, jam honey, crisps, dried fruit and buckwheat pancakes- and apart from biscuits etc that's it). She suggested a star chart (for a non verbal child who at the time had the language and social skills of a child aged between 12 and 18 months). At the end of the consultation she told me ds1 couldn't be autistic as he picked his toys up when I told him too!!!!! Aagghhhh !!!!

Jimjams, I've been looking at some education sites, and the statement debate has come up a lot. The thing that so many teachers have said is that one of the most positive things that can happen for the child is for the parents to know their rights, and fight for them.....so your ds has a good start, even if it shouldn't need to be like this. One thing that cropped up is getting a solicitor involved. They all seems to say that it is a case of those that shout loudest gets the best treatment....they don't think it is right, but it seems to play out that way. I'm sure this is all to familier to you.

Jimjams as you say your dietician is wrong. Things can be given on prescription at the discretion of the dietician, and if there is a good reason to avoid the foods concerned. Ds is allergic to wheat soya and dairy, and his foods are on prescription because of the effect it has on him. Maybe you could ask for another hospital to review him. Ds gets bread,pasta, pizza bases, biscuits and formula prescribed. Alternatively you could go to your gp if he/she is sympathetic and ask if they would prescribe it. I have moved to another part of the country since he was originally prescribed them, and the new dietician has in fact given me some forms to send off to try and find a tastier type of bread for him, so we get free samples sent to us. All I can suggest is that you keep trying, maybe stress the cost of them too? Good luck anyway.

Just wanted to thank lou and jimjams (among others) for always being so well informed on this subject - I feel much better prepared when speaking to our consultant and Portage worker, you've both given me lots of food for thought.

Thanks also Scummy - no doubt we will need all this info in the not so distant future.

hi hmb--cheers for the encouragement but this statement stuff is the main reason I want to run a mile when ds1 gets to school age, and is one of main reasons I want to HE! I find it's so negative and it takes up so much time an energy. I don't want my son to grow up with me always cross and always battling. I'd rather put the energy into HE. It's just about bearable now as I get a lot of support from the nursery- at a level that just isn't going to happen in a school......

Jimjams, will you get any help when you start to HE from portage etc? Iknow that childrem with illnesses that stop them going to school can get home tutoring, is this open to your Ds?
I agree with you that the level of support given in mainstream schooling is not enough when ASD children start in full time school. In addition, teachers often do not have a good enough understanding of the conditions they are expected to work with. It seems to me that inclusion for all is a cost saving excersize that nods in the direction of disability rights. It is an insult to all concerned.

exactly hmb!!!! eaxcatly exactly exaxctly!!! I doubt I would get much help. I may try to see if I can ds1 into the autism unit for pe and social skills- they're quitegood at that- unfortunately they then forget to teach them anything

I think that sounds like an excellent idea. Often specialist units do much better because they have a better understanding of how much children with learning problems can achieve. Mainstream schools often do not 'stretch' children enough, because they put everything down to the childs condition. Getting the extra input on the social side of things sounds like a good idea...and will give you some rest. Are there no facilities for home tutors? I seems so unfair.

I don't think that lea's like using home tutors- too expensive. To be honest it still wouldn't get rounf ds1's problems anyway. My main concern re teaching him is that I'm the only person who understands what he says so unless I'm there to translate- hopeless. I don't think I have much chance of flexischooling with the autism unit- but I can try. I don't want to send him there full time as they seem to watch and awful lot of videos rather than work. They seem to think that any tatrum is an autistic overload and therefore rest in front of videos is needed. Hmmmmm. I suspect that ds1 would cotton onto that one pretty quickly......

I have worked as an SEN Statementing Officer for several years and for several LEAs and I have thought all weekend about whether to post a message on this thread as I hope that I don't become the recipient of everyone's feelings towards their LEA!! I did try and change my user name before posting, but couldn't work out how to do it, so I guess I'll just have to disappear if the reception is too hostile!!

Jimjams, it is not uncommon for pre-schoolers to have statements to either secure support for them in a pre-school setting or to ensure that appropriate support is in place for them when they move up to primary school.

In making your request for statutory assessment you will need to send in 'evidence' of your DS1's SENs. If you have a written confirmation of diagnosis send that, any reports that you have, and a report from the nursery too. I know that this often frustrates parents as there's a feeling of 'it's obvious that my child needs a statement so why do I have to jump through these hoops?' but the LEA can only make decisions on the basis of the information that they receive as they have to make sure that there is a consistency as to which children are assessed. Your LEA may have published their criteria for statutory assessment, in which case you can address their criteria in your request.

Your LEA may have a 'Parent Partnership' Officer or links to a local independent parent support group who may be able to give you advice or support. Also you may already be aware of The Advisory Centre for Education (ACE), www.ace-ed.org.uk which is an independent advice centre that gives advice to parents on a range of issues, including SEN statementing etc They also publish a Special Education Handbook which is helpful. Their advice line telephone number is 0808 800 5793.

I know that there is a lot of negative feeling out there towards LEAs, but I would just like to say that the variablility between LEAs is huge, so wait and see what the response is from yours before deciding that the way ahead is necessarliy going to be a fight. There have been many occasions where the very first contact I have had with a parent has been hostile (to say the least!), but the outcome positive. I hope this is the case for you Jimjams.

You say that the nursery is supporting your request for assessment do you know why the nursery haven't made the referral for assessment themselves?

Having said to try and avoid confrontation if possible, if the LEA turns down your request for assessment, then I would immediately lodge an appeal against their decision at the SEN Tribunal. It takes a while for the Tribunal to go ahead and you may in that time be able to change the LEA's decision. You can always withdraw from the Tribunal if the LEA agrees to your request following receipt of further evidence etc.

Scummymummy is absolutely right about chasing for professional reports - late reports is one of the most common reason for the statementing process going over the timescale. Also definately make sure that the description of DS1's needs is one that you recognise - I try really hard in this area, but I have to admit that I have seen some truly appalling statements in my time!!!

Hope things go well with your request Jimjams.

kyliebump- thanks for your useful post. I don't think the nursery were aware they could make a request. The way it works round here is that there is a pre-school advisory teacher who handles all the requests for sen with the nurseries. Her recommendations are meant to provide appropriate funding for the nurseries. The problems arise when someone like my son comes along who really does need constant one to one (and isn't safe without it)- but the lea decide that he could share his support and the nursery are expected to get on with it. The way I understand it there are certain legal advantages to me making the request rather than the nursery (time frames of reply or something- can't remember now???)

I can't include most of the assessments with my letter of request as they all say at the top "not to be used for statementing purposes". He is in receipt of higher rate dla so I will mention that. I've been shown how the request needs to be set out, and I have a letter from nursery saying they are unable to meet his needs/ensure his safety without one to one.

Thanks for your help

Jimjams - you may well still be able to use those assessment reports to support your request for statutory assessment by being evidence of your child's needs. My understanding of the "not to be used for statementing purposes" line is that the assessment report shouldn't be used as a contributory report for the statement itself. If, after considering your letter and evidence, the LEA agrees to your request to carry out an assessment, then further assessment reports will be obtained to use when making the statement. Not sure that I've expressed that too well - does that make sense?!

As I mentioned before there is a huge variation in how LEAs work, so it could well be in your area that the nurseries do not usually make direct requests to the LEA. Things have changed slightly with the introduction of the updated SEN Code of Pracice - it used to be the case that parents only had the right of appeal to the SEN Tribunal if the request had come from the parent, but this has now changed so that parents have the right of appeal even if the school/nursery have made the request. Also, the LEA should respond to requests from parents and schools/nurseries alike within 6 weeks of receipt of the request for statutory assessment.

You can obtain a (free)copy of the SEN Code of Practice from the Department for Education and Skills - 0845 60 222 60. The ISBN is 1 84185 5294

• it's a bit of a nightmare to read, but worth a look and useful to refer to. There is a section on Identification, Assessment and Provision in Early Education Settings. Your nursery should have a copy. I wouldn't worry too much about getting this before putting in your request for statutory assessment - to request statutory assessment I would just write a straightforward letter with DS1's details, why you feel that he requires a statutory assessment and feel that he may need provision over and above what can usually be provided from within a schools own resources and attach any evidence that you can. The LEA will then have 6 weeks to obtain any further evidence to help them to make their decision. If they do decide to go ahead and make an assessment, they will then request reports to contribute to the statement.

Hope this helps (mind is a bit fuzzy today - think it's because I was up so late traumatising about whether to post that last message and "come out" as an (ex)LEA Officer!!).

Just to add something to the previous note about chasing professional reports yourself to make sure that they reach the LEA on time - I think Scummymummy said that LEAs often don't bother chasing. My caseload was often over 200 children (and over 500 when I was a manager) - now obviously they are not all under assessment at the same time, but there is usually something pretty major going on with someone most of the time, so yes, although reports would get chased, there was quite often a delay of a week or so past the deadline before the chasing happened. Also, professionals seem to respond better to remiders from parents - much easier to ignore a reminder letter from the LEA than it is a parent!!

oh I see what you mean kyliebump- I'll dig them out. The SALt report got us higher rate dla (at 3 and a half) so shoud get us a statement as well. i don't think there will be a problem anyway as the ed psychs etc are due to be brought on board in three months anyway via pre-school advisory. My main aim in the statement request now is so they know that if they decrease his one to one hours they'll have afight on their hands. The nursery is actually so brilliant he doesn't need a statement whilst he's there (and he'll be there until the term after he's 5- although no-one seems to be listening to me on that one!) .

Righto time to polish up the letter. Thanks again for your help.

How are you doing Jimjams?

It's great that the nursery is doing such a good job with your DS1 that you feel he doesn't 'need' as statement there - however, having a the support provided through a statement not only secures it in terms of having a specified number of hours written into the statement, but it may also mean that it may be coming from a different LEA budget, so you may not have the battle that you are expecting. Also, if you want DS1 to stay there until the term after he's 5, the statement may help there to, as it will have to be amended to change the placement specified. You will be involved in the process of amending the statement and will have the right of appeal if they amend it to something you are not happy with ie if they amend it at a time when you would prefer DS1 to continue at nursery.

Keep us informed of how you get on. If there's anything I can help with in terms of the system please shout!