Tricky one about removing kids from private school

[havingaschoolcrisis]

Namechanging regular here.
My kids private school (prep) has caused me some issues in the past few years, all of which have sort of been dealt with, but not very well. It has now had an inspection report which is dire. It gives it an overall grade of satisfactory, but says that a LOT of the teaching (including a fair few department heads) are inadequate. It doesn't make nice reading.

I now feel bad because a lot of the areas they said were poor tally with the problems that I've had. It all resonated with me. I have accepted quite a lot of assurances that they were dealing with certain issues which clearly they weren't.

Anyway we've decided to take them out. Obviously the usual thing is 1 full terms notice - they will be getting less than half a term from me, but I feel like their side of the contract has been broken. So in a way I'm happy to tell them to sue me for the money, but then again any school I send the kids to will want a Head's report on them (from their previous school).

So. How do I handle this? Do I send the Head a letter saying "for these reasons I consider the school not to have kept their end of the bargain and I'm taking them out immediately" and hope he will treat the children fairly in his report? Or do I tell him verbally I'm taking the children out, and say "I hope this won't affect your ability to give a fair report to the next school" and send him the letter after? And do I tell the other schools that the reason I'm taking them out is because this one is crap? Or do I pay the terms fees (almost £9,000 - several children) for the sake of peace and quiet (I really don't have that sort of money to flush down the loo, and to be honest I don't think they deserve it). I expect quite a lot of children will be removed so they may well be chasing everyone for that cash, financially it is going to be a bad year for them I guess.

Please help, I'm feeling a bit crap and vulnerable and need some handholding. Thanks.

why do you need a heads report? is that a private thing? never heard of it when i switched state schools. does it matter? what is the new school going to do with the report? tbh if the new school took more notice of the report than the child sitting in front of them they prob arent worth going to either

it does sound like they have broken their side of the contract but not being a solicitor, i don't know the legalities of that course of action. i would advise that you speak to the citizens advice bureau and see what they suggest.

hth xx

Could you contact the school(s) you're planning to send them to and ask for advice re. the report? In state schools, a copy of the previous year's end of term report is usually what you need, which might save the awkwardness of having to ask the head to write one specially, and would probably give a more representative idea of their abilities anyway.

No idea re the fees -- could you have a brief conversation with a firm of solicitors specialising in education law? If they think you might have a case you could then draft a letter to the head stating the ways in which you think they've broken their contract, and cc it to the solicitor. Then wait and see what happens. It's amazing how many people back down when confronted with a formal letter in legal-ese, even if you're not a solicitor.

We moved our children without giving a terms notice, and I fully expected to have to pay the fees, although in the case of dd they had certainly not upheld their side of the bargain.

I then found that a parent who was a lot noisier than me (hard to believe ) was told she needn't pay the terms notice if her dd left immediately.

I did argue on that basis, but ended up paying.

I think that the report between the schools does take account of any unpaid fees, which could be embarassing, although morally you are in the right.

I think if the school's getting slated in reports -> it won't be just your children they're losing -> so not just your fees -> so will be desperate to retain as much income as they can => won't consider any compromises at all (also because of course if they compromise with you they'll be setting a precedent for other parents' demands) - you can see the drift of the argument. Unfortunately. Also, did you pay a deposit? You'll definitely be waving farewell to that, and that can be substantial.

The reports are a different matter. Completely agree with frogs about speaking to your planned substitute school(s) - all private schools know each other, so your planned next schools will know all about why you're leaving the current one. Have a sheaf, going back a few terms, of ordinary reports to hand - I would feel pretty confident they will understand & accept those.

Saying you hope it doesn't affect the report could be seen as quite threatening tbh.

Well that is a good point both of you - they are all about to get their final end of year reports, that should be sufficient shouldn't it? Mind you those won't come out until July, and I want to have the places in the new school sewn up in the next three weeks (it involves us moving house, which is doubly why I don't want to give them £9000 in fees, they are costing me enough already grr).

I don't know why they want it - to see if they are sufficiently intelligent, not disruptive, whatever? I just don't want to tell the next school that the Head of this one might not be nice in the report because I've told him to sue me for next terms fees. They might not want parents like me in their school .

Give them last year's school reports, and tell them you'll forward the current year's ones when available. Can't you tell the new head something along the lines of 'I have had a few misunderstandings with OldSchoolHead, so I don't want to flag up the fact that we're thinking of moving'.

Hopefully the new school head will not want to jeopardise the chance of getting three new bums on seats for september, and will interpret your comment as 'discerning mother who wants to be discreet about school move' rather than 'pushy, non-paying complaining mother from hell'.

Sorry aj and bink, thanks for your views
bink actually we didn't sign a contract and didn't pay a deposit (because they didn't ask) - they have started doing that for people now though, £400 per child I think. Anyway they haven't got it for us which is lucky.

I think they will chase us for the money, but I do think that a well drafted letter pointing out all the issues we have had, the things they said they would do and failed to, and the terrible things said in the inspection report may make them decide there are easier targets to chase. We'll see.

I'd love to know if anyone else has not given a full terms notice and if so what happened, though.

You can check the details of your contract with the school, but from what I know of, you will not find anything in it which says anything about the quality of the teaching your children will receive . I know you feel they have broken their side of the contract by providing a poor service, but I suspect in law unless the school is so bad that it has to be closed down immediately then they have not broken their contract with you, and you are therefore legally liable for the full term's fees in lieu of notice.

Of course, you can choose not to pay, and tell them they'll have to sue you for it, but it may well be viewed as a bad debt in terms of credit checks and other schools.

brilliant frogs, that is exactly what I need to say. exactly. many thanks.

I think asking for a report is standard, just to make sure there aren't any issues that the parents might be lying about (eg. kid is a nightmare and has been excluded three times already, prone to swearing at the teachers and can't add up to save his life, that kind of thing).

I'm moving my ds to another school in September, I requested that they did not ask for a reference from the current school head as he has only just started and appears to think badly of my son. I suggested they contact his class teacher instead and gave them a copy of his last report. They have not yet asked for a reference though. If the school your children attend is crap, then they wo't want the publicity involved should they take you to court.
You could argue breach of contract although legally, by keeping your children there, you are agreeing to the breach and have technically created a new contract with them. I would be seeking reimbursement of fees from them though if they have not been delivering what is in your contract.

Just cutting to the chase here:

Your contract is for one term's full notice. You propose to give them less than half a term. You are worried that you will be labelled a bad payer by your Head to future schools.

I don't honestly think you'd have a leg to stand on legally unless you had written evidence that you proposed to withdraw your children unless certain performance criteria were met.

The only helpful thing I can suggest is that you ask them nicely. It would in the normal course of events be fine I am sure providing they could sell your place.

If you didn't sign a contract, was there any mention of notice period in the acceptance letter when you took the places? Or a mention of "subject to terms and conditions, copy available in school office"?

If you've never agreed a term's notice, they can't hold you to it!

Avenap the inspection report was only last week and I've made it clear to the head, the head of governors and the head of the lower school that I am extremely unhappy and considering my options.
I certainly haven't agreed to the breach!

Quattro - I have got correspondence about other issues which make it clear that if things don't improve I'll have to consider my children's position, so I don't think it is quite as clear cut as you say, but I agree that the bald facts are as you state them.

I'm sure that on the bottom of every invoice it says that a terms notice must be given, so I'm sure it is an implied term.
I also think it is an implied term that the education that is offered must be of a satisfactory quality - I don't agree that means satisfactory overall, I think it means that all of it must be at least satisfactory. To be told in a report that Maths, French, Science, Latin and Music are all inadequate surely must be a breach (that is 4 out of 7 common entrance subjects for example).

Not actually signing a contract doesn't mean you don't have one, by the way - you will have an "implied" contract, with terms typical for the situation - which does mean a term's notice, I've never come across a private school that didn't insist on a full term.

We took ds out of his school with less than a term's notice, and we did pay up (bitterly): we had a go at asking nicely, and we did have genuine good reasons, but it was no go. Brick wall.

Privately, I think the school in question had probably done a factoring deal - ie, sold its receivables - to support some expansion borrowings - which will have meant it simply had no power to compromise (as its financing bank will have prohibited that).

That is interesting Bink.
I don't think this school would be that sophisticated in its financing arrangement, but who knows.

If it's on the bottom of the invoice, then you have agreed to it. I'd agree that the quality ought to also be a term of the contract, but that's a lot harder to prove. There are general consumer protection standards about services being up to scratch but I have no idea how a court would apply them to a school, so I don't know how it would go if you refused to pay. You may not need the Head's report about your children, but I think it is likely that schools share this sort of information between them, so it depends how the new school react to the fact that you have not paid - it could be awkward.

I would go and see a contract solicitor about this. It is possible they will chase you for the terms fees, especially if you have a few children at the school, 9K is alot of money to them. I would seek legal advice about a fee reimbursment from the school as they hve not delivered adequate teaching and see what happens.

Are you moving them to another private school? If so I think one of the main reasons for the heads letter is to let them know that there are no fees owing. It's commonplace for private schools not to accept pupils who have outstanding fees owing at their previous school.

Aside from that I would think both that the existing school is unlikely to give an unfair representation of your child and that the new school is likely to want to make its own judgements in any case so I wouldn't be too worried.

Have you tried the 'can't pay any more money so will have to remove my children as I can't afford to keep them here' card to the current head?

Please do not play the "i cannot afford to keep them here" card if you are proposing to stay in the private sector ...

sorry. bad suggestion.