Complaint against school

[tubsters]

Posting with a name change to protect my child’s identity. Has anyone had experience with a Level 3 complaint panel hearing at a school?

My 12-year-old son, who has never really been in trouble before, was given what I feel were punitive and degrading punishments. For example, he was made to sit alone on a bench in the yard for about an hour, as all the other children walked past knowing he’d been excluded from a trip – a clear act of public humiliation.

He was also called into a meeting with the Head and three other teachers, where he was pressured to end every sentence with “sir.” He was clearly nervous, and this only heightened the power imbalance and distress he felt. he is usually very polite and would always use ‘sir ‘ in normal circumstances

I accept that children need discipline and have always supported teachers, but the way this was handled felt oppressive and unnecessary, especially for a child who posed no danger and was already anxious.

The Head has denied much of this, so I escalated it to the governors and it’s now going to a panel hearing. I feel quite daunted about going up against the school, but I strongly believe this needs to be addressed for my son’s sake and for other children in the future.

If anyone has been through a panel hearing and can share their experience or advice, I’d be really grateful.

I agree with you that these punishments sound simply like an exercise in bullying on the part of the head. Unfortunately new heads who are not so good tend to focus heavily on draconian discipline because they perceive that to be much easier than their main job, which should be to focus on teaching and learning.

However, to be honest I wouldn't expect to get that much out of the complaints process. If it is your child's word against the head's about what happened, the governors are bound to side with the head. If you can get witnesses to support your son, so much the better, but I suspect you may struggle - especially in relation to the meeting with staff. In my experience governors tend to side with the head almost automatically, which is perhaps not surprising as they presumably appointed him and have to carry on working with him.

If your complaint isn't upheld, I would suggest that that doesn't necessarily make it a waste of time. At the very least, you have forced the head and staff to justify themselves, and they will be well aware that you will be watching their every move from now on. They will also be aware that, if the governors side with them this time, that won't necessarily happen if there are any more complaints of a similar nature from any parent in the future - the governors will be well aware that lightning doesn't strike twice in the same place and will be less inclined to believe them again. So you will almost certainly have achieved an improvement in the head's discipline management and behaviour, even though no-one will acknowledge it.i

You're acting like he's be stripped to the waist and marched through the city while people ring bells and bellow "Shame! Shame! Shame!"

I spent half my lunchtimes stood outside the Head Master's office while everyone was running pasenjoying themselves...I thought that was pretty standard? I'd have killed for a bench, what a luxury! Joking aside, it seems like a good way to give a kid the opportunity to think about what they've done while they see what they're missing out on.

I expect his mates were giving him a bit of stick about it...again, pretty normal?

As for the Sir thing, I guess it depends. If they normally call teachers Sir, and he was being flippant by deliberately not doing it, of course they're going to pull him up. It sounds like he needed to be reminded who he was speaking to.

Nobody can say if the punishment fits without knowing the crime, but you're not going to convince a panel (or anyone, I expect) that being made to sit on a bench for a bit is some kind of cruel and unusual humiliation that they need to apologise for.

What next, compo faces in the local paper?

Why? Does the sort of child who would brazen out a situation like that necessarily grow up into a "better" adult than the child who feels he is being publicly shamed? Or might the first child grow up defiant and inconsiderate, whilst the second child might grow up to be gentle and caring?

People who say OP cannot record the governors' meeting without permission are incorrect. It is perfectly permissible to record it without telling anyone or asking permission, provided that you keep the recording to yourself. If you were to publicise it, that would clearly be wrong. You might be able to use the recording for the purposes of any subsequent legal proceedings, but only if the judge gives permission.

Look I get that you want to keep things private, but you're constantly referring to the misdemeanor as low level and that your problem with the punishment is that it's disproportionate so people are naturally going to ask what it was!

It's about feeling entitled and wronged, when you are actually the one who has made poor choices. It's about deflection and the child not owning their own choices. Much easier to feel aggrieved and blame others, put the focus on that instead of looking inward.

I repeat, if @tubsters only wanted to know about how a complaints panel works, then she could have asked, but she didn't.

He was upset. Presumably the school wanted him to feel upset. How does that make him entitled?

He may have been upset but this does not mean that the school intended for him to feel 'humiliated'.

Well this has been thought provoking because when I was at school humiliation and nastiness was an accepted part of any punishment.

I mean I was made to march around the sports courts for an hour while everyone else was milling around me on lunch break, wearing only pe knickers (not shorts style, literally like high leg knickers) and a t shirt. The knickers had my name on in chain stitch 😆. I must have been 14 or 15 ish and it was in the middle of a red light district. Fun times. All I did was hide in the loos during PE, stupidly got caught! Or when I truthfully said I had completed but forgotten to bring in my homework, the teacher didn’t believe me and forced me to empty out the contents of my bag in front of the class which was for some reason quite upsetting. There was much worse stuff, but that was more casual cruelty than punishment anyway. My DM had a teacher who used to throw jam jars at pupils.

It’s really not great!

I think the only thing I am after is an admission that they didn’t handle it well. The head’s response to me was very defensive and actually plainly lied about what he said.

I underestand why you WANT this, but do you NEED it? Even if there's a chance that it will negatively impact yours and your son's relationship with the school? (It shouldn't, but it might). All this anger you hold toward the school and the situation, the staff might hold the same anger... towards you for daring to question their actions, for complaining about them, for putting them through a panel hearing, and towards your son for causing all this (they shouldn't, but they might). I can't see that any good will come of it, and all just for an appology (I say this with kindness, btw - I know tone can be misread via text).

I don't think any reasonable person would agree that sitting a child on a bench for a bit was an intentional act of humiliation. I've no doubt the kid didn't enjoy it/was upset; they'd just been pulled off a trip!

OP clearly isn't a fan of the Head, and didn't like the answers she got from the school in the first instance. From her combative responses to anyone who doesn't agree with her on this thread, I imagine she hasn't taken this particularly well, and now can't let it go for the sake of saving face.

If I was really cynical, given that the school community is quite small/exclusive and people will no doubt be gossiping about it, I'd suggest that trying to force the school to admit fault and apologize is away to take the heat off her son for whatever it is he did.

That brought back memories to me and sent a chill down my spine. I can remember a 'disgrace bench' at one of my schools, in full view of everyone, and girls sitting on it in tears. Nobody ever did anything that terrible. Ritualistic public humiliation was the order the of day back then, there was no respect, the teachers were 'always right'; they could say what they liked, insulting, personal, loud, never in private. Bullies. None of us had the nerve to refuse or to speak out, just had to take it. Parents were too intimidated to defend their children.

I thought those days were over and schools more child-friendly now. The Jane Eyre Lowood-type schooldays should be well behind us.

Good for you speaking up for your son. I've no idea if he will receive an apology but he will always remember that you defended him and grow up confident, willing and able to defend others who are in a vulnerable position.

In my experience, private school staff spend as much time fighting fires as state school staff, sometimes more. Particularly fires started by parents.

Careful. I had a post removed for saying exactly the same thing. The OP is living in an echo chamber - only accepting the posts that agree with her. Everyone else, who thinks that the punishment almost certainly reflected the crime, is wrong. In reality, all children, however well- behaved they are normally, can have a moment of madness and do something out of character, especially when egged on by a friend. Even if you feel the punishment is disproportionate to the crime, it is better to tell the child that they misbehaved and have to accept the it is truly outrageous. Then draw a line under it. Going to a complaints panel for a one-off punishment, especially when the child has since left the school, makes the OP look vindictive and the child smug in the knowledge that whatever he does, Mummy will come to the rescue. No wonder teachers are leaving the profession in droves.

*the punishment, unless it is truly outrageous, is what I meant to say.

100%

And the crazy thing is...that wasn't even the punishment! They sat him on the bench while they were figuring out what to do with him! A colossal waste of everyone's time.

This whole thing is an exercise in deflection from the kid's poor behaviour, and by extension the Op's parenting

How degrading and humiliating you are OP. Best report you to the governors.

So former teacher here. I can’t offer advice as I can’t really understand what actually went down.

He’s not a border correct?
So he was specifically at the school late for an evening excursion?
If the misdemeanour is occurred the day before when was the chat with the office and the punishment decided?

If the incident occurred the day before and they waited till everyone was getting on the coach to decide whether he should be allowed to go then that’s bullshit, and that should be where your anger should lie. You decide on the punishment the day off, you don’t drag it out over days.

Forget the bench and ‘sir’ thing be mad they didn’t have their shit together.
Being sat on the bench is not an unusual practice and they won’t change that practice. Of course they can’t take him somewhere else cause they were all out the front deciding whether he could go and getting the other children on the coach. There isn’t necessarily a wash of other free staff around. Depending on the time off day they will be elsewhere

All I can offer is when you go into this meeting they will ask you a lot questions, do not be snarky with your responses and keep to the facts.

So I have some experience with a school panel.

you need to read the behaviour expectations the school has and the corresponding punishments. The panel won’t take sides or anything like that they are essentially a “court of law” who will account for the facts and compare to the school guide that’s all.

I will say I don’t think you are going to gain anything from the panel and the school will justify their choices. Personally I don’t think the punishment was too bad but I am so sorry your kiddo felt humiliated that must be so hard for him.

Wishing you the best of luck for the outcome you and your boy need.

But as you won’t tell us what he’d done wrong (presumably because you think it would give us less sympathy for him - I can’t think of any other good reason), we can’t possibly judge whether it was "proportionate and fair" and whether you have a good chance of your complaint succeeding, or give advice on how best to approach the panel hearing, can we?

The more you write, the clearer it becomes that you are simply using this incident as a means of attacking the Head, whom you dislike. Even if you are justified in that feeling, it is very distasteful for you to use your DS as a tool in your campaign, blowing up a relatively minor incident into something he is perpetually having to relive, and preventing him from just putting it behind him and moving on with his life.

And you have persuaded yourself that you are being a good parent, in keeping his "humiliation" fresh in his mind! I beg to differ.

Was the reason he was outside due to supervision? He couldn't be in a classroom on his own or a classroom on his own with one teacher (to protect the teachers against accusation) and presumably his teachers were going on the trip and they didnt have two members of staff available. Were other classes outside and he was being supervised by them or what happened when his class left - did he stay on a bench or go into a different classroom? Was his absence from the trip planned in advance or did he do something on the day which meant he couldn't go but staff then had the sudden unplanned issue of what to do with him?