Moral framework at school - circuses and letters to Father Christmas

[Anna8888]

My daughter started French pre-school last September aged nearly 3. She could stay in the same school right through, up to 18.

The school is bilingual French-English, though the curriculum is mostly the French national curriculum and the culture of the school, despite having dozens of nationalities, is pretty French since most of the teachers are French.

I am slightly uneasy about the moral code at school. For example, all year the children have had as their "theme" the circus, which is culminating in a visit to the circus tomorrow afternoon (circus with real live animals including tigers etc).

When I was a child, in the school and home environment I grew up in, circuses were totally off-limits as they were seen as cruel and exploitative of animals. Our "theme" at school might have been the saving of endangered species...

Likewise, the children at my daughter's school wrote a letter to Father Christmas and went to the PO to post it as their treatment of Christmas. This is France, and there isn't religion at school (not allowed, apart from religious lessons in private schools). But I think that explaining Christmas to 3 year olds purely in terms of "ordering" presents is morally very dubious.

What do you think? At some point I shall discuss this further with the school (I know) and I want to have thought it through properly.

I don't know Anna. Is it a private school?

I suppose it's impossible to agree 100% with a school ethos.

If I was to agree with a school ethos 100% all the time I'd have to found one. But then it'd go against my principle of going state school .

I wouldn't be comfortable with the circus (despite loving it as a child) or with the letter either.

Writing a letter to Father Christmas isn't just about ordering presents, so I wouldn't worry about that one. I share your concern about circuses but not everyone feels the same way. I would find out more about the subjects taught and themes covered.

An infant school in the UK is quite likely to write Father Christmas letters, some of them can be very loving and caring. They may do circus themes, I have at Beavers (not with animals) but it is good with juggling, acrobats, clowns etc.Find out if you can agree with most of the ethos.

Am also in France.
I wouldn't have a problem with either of the above.

Circus seems to be very popular around here, and my dd actually does 'circus' as one of her Wednesday activities (of course that really means gymnastics and a few trapeze/tightrope sessions) but there are no animals involved. However when the real circus comes to town, the kids love to go. I don't feel any public opinion AGAINST the animals tbh. That's not to say that you shouldn't stand up for what you believe. Would you bring it up with the teacher?

As for Christmas, I teach English in the local primary and was a bit stuck regarding how to approach it without mentioning religion. We learned vocab (ch tree, decoration, stocking etc) and then wrote a letter to Santa...... sorry!!!! (I was slightly bemused because I was waiting to be asked 'how do you say teddybear in English?' or 'how do you spell "train"....... Instead I got 'how do you say 'nintendo ds' in English?!!!

Franca - yes, it's a private school in the French manner ie there are fees, but they are quite low by English standards (around 5,000 euros per year) because the French teachers' salaries are paid by the state and the school follows the French national curriculum.

I agree that one is unlikely to find a school ethos that matches one's own entirely - in fact, I think that it is good in some ways for there to be discrepancies with home as it gets a child used to different ways of behaviour.

Glad that I am not alone, however, in finding the circus and letter to FC a bit dodgy . I will continue to ponder.

AbbeyA - unfortunately the letter to FC was about ordering presents (the whole thing was organised for pre-schoolers by the French Post Office)

I do want to investigate further. I do often find the French more comfortable with exploitation of others (and this is what bothers me about the circus, and the letter to FC) than the English.

I have no issues with human circuses, btw - it's the exploitation of animals that bothers me. I am going on the excursion, so will be able to see for myself what the children are shown, and if it really bothers me I will raise it with the teachers.

The non-religious teaching of Christmas is really difficult for me - I hate it, and think that if Christmas cannot be taught within a Christian context, it should just be ignored as it becomes a mere commercial venture.

What an interesting point Anna. I wouldn't have thought French schools would have even mentioned religious festivals.

I loved the ethos at ds small, shabby CofE state school in the UK (despite not being religious).
I'm now bracing myself for him starting primary in Italy in September. I visited the school and had a good feeling from it. But you never know, there might be a deranged catholic RE teacher........

Uriel - it's very complicated.

State schools are not allowed to do any religious teaching, though Sarkozy has spoken about introducing more teaching of religion and our moral heritage within the context of history/geography.

However, French schools have days off for religious festivals like the rest of the country. It's seemingly pretty hard to completely ignore religion entirely, and so, IMO, they botch it.

There is still quite a prevalent attitude in France that moral teaching has no place in school and is an entirely private matter for families. Though how you conceive of actually running an institution without it having any sort of behavioural ethos makes my mind boggle.

I agree that I wouldnt be comfortable with solely the non-religious aspect of Christmas being taught. But I suppose all you can do is ensure that you are providing an understanding of the religious context. Many british schools would do letters to Father Christmas too, so I don't think this in itself is harmful; it just needs to be placed in context.
The circus WOULD bother me definitely.
Am intrigued BTW about the school being private. I thought it was pretty rare for parents to pay for private education in france, because the state system is considered superior? Just interested!

findtheriver - your info is out of date - a third of children in Paris and surrounding area go to private schools and demand for places is soaring.

My daughter's school is bilingual French-English, so we effectively pay for the English part. In a general sort of way I am very happy with the school - she has made lots of progress, is beginning to read in English and French and knows her numbers in both too, the children and parents are all very nice and well-behaved.

We lived abroad when ds was that age, he attended a pc International school with little refernce to religion and it felt a bit of a cultural/religious void because we found it hard to relate to the local customs and what was acceptable there. To an extent you have to accept that there will be differences and that is part of the experience of living abroad. It is more a case of finding opportunities as parents to put such things into context, rather than contesting what is the local norm on principle,and in fact this could apply equally to a UK school.

We went to a Christmas Eve service in English one year whereas in school they had Sami Claus and Schmutzli (a politically incorrect black character, associated with "bad" children) visit each year with gifts and avoided the circus, although still visited its home site and the zoo once as a means to look at welfare etc even if it went over dc's heads. You probably won't change their attitudes by raising it with the school and also your dd has only done one year which may or may not be typical.

Aah right that makes sense. I'm sure the situation in Paris is not typical of the country as a whole I guess.
LOL at well behaved children and parents! Well behaved parents is a big plus!! As long as the children are allowed to be themselves and retain their spark, then well behaved children are good too!

My sister's children go to an international school (Amsterdam) that does the IB curriculum and I find that her children's school themes are hugely more inspiring - the cultural and environmental consciousness of my nephews'/niece's school is pretty impressive.

I don't really agree that I shouldn't raise it with the school if I am uneasy. Parents, IMO, have a moral duty to raise issues of concern with their child's school.

Do you feel there is a 'narrowness' generally then in the cultural awareness of the school anna8888? If these issues were one-offs, then I wouldnt make too big a deal (though would still raise the circus issue with the school as I think to expose children of this age to animal exploitation is pretty worrying). But if it's a more general unease with the outlook of the school then it's a different matter. I don't know much about french schools, but i know some british private schools can be far more narrow and limiting in their outlook than their state counterparts.

No, the school is not narrow at all in its outlook compared with the competition - there are loads of nationalities/cultures/religions at the school - very few children at all come from monocultural homes. I would be hard pressed to find a school as diverse in its composition.

It's the issue of exploitation of others/animals that really bothers me...

I remember when my son was younger more than half of his (very short) letter for Father Christmas consisted of things for his little sister.

justaboutconscious - the cultural make-up of the parent/pupil body is very, very different to the cultural make-up of the teaching body at the school. So I'm not as sure as you seem to be that parents would be so outraged as you think if the school forewent letters to FC and the circus.

For example, in my daughter's class there are more Muslims and Jews than Christians.

I find the constant eco-nagging in UK schools extremely tedious myself, and not really 'moral'. Also you can have morals without religion being involved.
If you disapprove of circuses maybe you should take your daughter out of the visit. I think writing a letter to Father Christmas is harmless. As I said, presents don't all have to be for that child.

I would definitely feel the same as you re the circus, and Christmas dispatched solely with a letter to FC is pointless.

I also agree that the French botch their approach to religion in schools. Excluding all religious teaching from schools isn't inclusive, it feeds prejudice IMO.

But I've found that things that bother me about my girls' school (private catholic) only bother the other British/American parents (of which there are few) and rarely the French ones. With your school's wider cultural base you might find more support amongst other parents than I have.

I did a bit of light canvassing outside school and at the park this lunchtime .

One child, a 100% French child, is not going on the circus trip because she is frightened of potential lions and whips. I talked to her grandfather about it and explained my own moral quandary - he laughed (quite pleasantly) and obviously my issues hadn't crossed his mind - he respected, however, his granddaughter's fears. I saw the class teacher, however, trying to convince said child to go along on the outing...

Also talked to an Austrian mother about this (who is also a teacher in another life). She was also a bit dubious about the appropriateness of the circus visit, and hadn't cottoned on to the letter to FC.

To be continued... thank you for all your thoughts.