Moral framework at school - circuses and letters to Father Christmas

[Anna8888]

My daughter started French pre-school last September aged nearly 3. She could stay in the same school right through, up to 18.

The school is bilingual French-English, though the curriculum is mostly the French national curriculum and the culture of the school, despite having dozens of nationalities, is pretty French since most of the teachers are French.

I am slightly uneasy about the moral code at school. For example, all year the children have had as their "theme" the circus, which is culminating in a visit to the circus tomorrow afternoon (circus with real live animals including tigers etc).

When I was a child, in the school and home environment I grew up in, circuses were totally off-limits as they were seen as cruel and exploitative of animals. Our "theme" at school might have been the saving of endangered species...

Likewise, the children at my daughter's school wrote a letter to Father Christmas and went to the PO to post it as their treatment of Christmas. This is France, and there isn't religion at school (not allowed, apart from religious lessons in private schools). But I think that explaining Christmas to 3 year olds purely in terms of "ordering" presents is morally very dubious.

What do you think? At some point I shall discuss this further with the school (I know) and I want to have thought it through properly.

Am now having serious misgivings about the circus trip tomorrow.

One half of me wants my daughter to go along on the class outing.

The other half doesn't want her to go to a circus... ever. And I'm not at all sure I can face it.

I have to say I would have thought twice about the circus trip myself, we didn't go in Switzerland when we had the opportunity to go with a group of fellow expats. btw I didn't say not to raise your concerns, just that ime it is unlikely to receive much more attention than a passing nod and shrug as they may simply not "get" why you are so questioning something fundamentlaly acceptable in their culture.

I talked about with my partner this evening. He's French through-and-through, but when I explained my misgivings he did pretty much agree with me that he thought circuses were outdated and didn't have a place on the curriculum of a school that promotes itself for its cultural openness and forward thinking...

OH MY GOD

I'm horrified.

Late last night (when my partner got in) we talked again about the circus and he basically don't go, I wasn't at all sure about it and better to be safe than sorry. (In the mean time I had looked at the circus' web site in great detail and was not happy with what I saw).

This morning when I dropped my daughter at school I tried to see her class teacher to tell her, but she hadn't arrived so I left a message with the TA.

At lunchtime I went to get my daughter and saw the teacher. She attacked me for "letting her down at the last minute". I said I was sorry, but that I felt that we as parents had been given very little information (or time - we were only told about this in the middle of last week) and I had really only been properly alerted to the content of the circus by another parent, on Sunday afternoon, which hadn't given me much time to think about it - and could the teacher please confirm that there were going to be lions, tigers and elephants in the show.

And she replied "I don't know, I haven't seen the show, I imagine there will be animals. The show is destined for children and it is legal to take them, and my responsibility stops there."

My heart is beating very fast. I have lost what little confidence I had in this woman.

he basically advised don't go

sorry that is kind of the reaction I'sd anticipated , not what you want to hear thgouh . Perhaps she was more abrasive than she might have been with more notice.

How much longer does your dd have her as a teacher and are the next class ones any more open do you think or is this indicative of the attitude as a whole ?

LIZS - I shall talk to the headteacher, this is just not on.

Also talked to a couple of other mothers outside school (one of whom is a RL teacher but from another country) who have children in parallel classes. Also horrified.

If the teacher thinks her only responsibility when judging what is suitable for the children under her care is whether it is legal or not, she doesn't deserve her job IMO.

Not much longer to go - only another month.

She's not a popular teacher btw - the childen adore the teacher in the parallel class, and the one in the year above, but this one is grim.

My daughter will be at another site from September.

Oh dear. I'm not surprised at the teacher's jobsworth reaction

Would your daughter be moving sites anyway or is it your choice?

It's my choice that she move sites next year, for moyenne section. Otherwise she would have moved site anyway for grande section.

Now thinking that I will have to move DD to other (better, very hard to get into) school ASAP...

If you disapprove - you did the right thing. My kids lurve the circus but have only been to ones with horses. I would have thought they were much better controlled in terms of animal care these days, but entirely your decision.

I would have no problem with the Christmas letter, harmless surely - part of childhood for centuries. Again, if you really dislike, ask she doesn't do it. But think about the effect on your child.

Agree with others, you will never find a schl which suits your ethos exactly.Its a best fit.

niceglasses - my daughter has been (twice) to a Christmas show (Cinderella type) on horseback. I don't have a problem with that at all (you'd basically have to have a problem with dressage and showjumping to have a problem with it). And it was gorgeous and tasteful - oh, and there were dogs, and sheep, and goats, and ducks in the show too, all looked after very kindly.

My problem is with the wild animals (tigers, lions, elephants) that are kept in cages. When I looked on the website of the circus my daughter's school was going to, there was a picture of four tigers in a caged ring and a man with a huge whip .

I'm v of your choice of bilingual schools, Anna

Am having a big wobble over our choice of collège for DD1 and wish there were more options

Castille - I am quite aware that in the big scheme of things we are absolutely spoilt for bilingual education choice here and I don't want to complain too much (especially not at the lovely French subsidised prices for this type of education). I have a big issue with French bourgeois morality in a general sort of way and it is not surprising I clash a bit with school on those issues. I need to think hard about how to inculcate my (less cruel and selfish) values in my daughter...

Would you send your DD1 to boarding school? Ecole Active Bilingue Jeannine Manuel has a boarding section (near Lille) - and EABJM is the star bilingual school in Paris, with fantastic ethos and results. The Lycée International at Saint Germain en Laye is also very good but not sure they do boarding...

Absolutely agree about the bourgeois morality. Our choice is between the international sections of a large, ultra-bourgeois catholic collège and a small state collège in a deprived area. We have gone for the latter precisely because of these sticky issues, but I am worried about how she will fare there.

I don't think she's ready for boarding (though she quite likes the idea of it, in a jolly hockey sticks sort of way), but we would consider it in the future if necessary.

What a hard choice you have. Not sure I could have been as brave as you. Despite my grave misgivings, I think at a pinch I would go for bourgeois rather than deprived - I'd be too worried about not getting to prépa or having a decent shot at British university. My (Jewish) partner has even looked at Catholic ultra-bourgeois alternatives for the boys (though has rejected them).

Fortunately, the OIB section of the follow-on state lycée is good, which should ensure her future prospects aren't compromised. We hope.

And we have been so shocked by some of the prejudice displayed by "well-educated" bourgeois catholic families at their current primary that we have been very put off sending DD to collège with even more of these people!

I'm very worried about her sticking out like a sore thumb though.

Where are you Castille (don't say if you don't want to of course)?

Not far from Rennes

Hmm. That's along way from Paris (or Lille) for alternatives.

The French are so bad at examining their own beliefs critically... and at debating ideas. That's the bit of the education system that will really let our children down if and when they want to study in UK universities.

find your concerns incredible - if you have a problem with the circus & Santa then you'll going to find the rest of schooling very troubling.

I doubt it. I expect there'll be moral issues all along the way but that mostly everything will be fine, just as it has this year.

(I am quite aware that I am speaking about an incredibly privileged school and child btw ).

Got feedback from other mothers this morning... circus trip was not a huge success, with several children not getting on the bus at the last minute, others very frightened of tigers and lions and wanting their mummies...

lol