Whitehall “braced for private schools collapse” 4

[ICouldBeVioletSky]

Continuing the discussion about the impact of VAT on independent schools…

Banding and lotteries are all good on paper, but then there are huge complaints in practice if the school is desirable.

DD is at a comp that has a banding test as part of the application process. They sit an NVR test and the results are split into 3 equal bands based on scores - higher, middle and lower.

There is then a lottery system that randomly allocates places within those bands after LAC, siblings and aptitude places.

Originally it was a school that nobody wanted their children to attend, now it's the most oversubscribed in London.

Lots of complaints from people who live locally that their distance to the school doesn't factor and children from the other side of London get places over theirs.

They've now brought in a primary feeder school system to try and fix that with 55 places available.

Yes I agree. I’m heartened by their fall in support since. Perhaps these kinds of crappy lies don’t work for most. Tg

Re state in pp, parents want a way to get an ok provision. If it means moving or exams etc

My preference would be to improve things in all state rather than reorder or a race to the bottom.

Falling rolls could have been the opportunity ratter than this dire policy.

Wouldn't huge complaints in practice (from the nimbys and bigots) be a price worth paying if it results in a more equitable society? In the context of the civil rights movement in the US, desegregation busing to make schools more representative of society is generally seen as having been a good thing, but there were huge complaints at the time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desegregation_busing

Some of those who've been saying it's "only fair" that other parents pay VAT on education are also the ones sitting on million pound houses at the gates of outstanding state schools. Would they still think it's "only fair" if a kid from a council estate a mile away gets the place by lottery that they were expecting to go to their own child?

They definitely don't think it's fair at all.

I've had complaints from people because DD travels a long way for her school (she got in via aptitude place) and they didn't get a place despite living two streets away.

Housing local to the school is either in the millions or social housing.

There was a big thread last year on the idea of all schools being lottery and the vast number of people posting wanted a school close to their house even if it wasn't as good as one further away. Some people prioritise local friends and being able to walk to school over results or being high ranking.

Brighton and Hove is currently changing its secondary school access rules - there’s been a lot of opposition to it.

Of course there’s a lot of opposition to it. People are selfish.

Did B & H have a lottery system in place? I thought it was one of the few.

I’m not for it. We do have a school with banding nearby but having local schools is better.

I also don’t agree with the ‘selfish’ take. Some are more invested in education, work with that rather than create a race to the bottom,

There are better ways than VAT and lottery systems

@EasternStandardhow does fair banding and a lottery create a “race to the bottom”? If it comes to that, what is a “race to the bottom”?

Labour’s approach works hard to stifle rather than encourage imo.

Instead of seeing parents who put in effort, whether through private or state sector, as something to be encouraged they squash it. Let those parents do some heavy lifting in education whether it’s reducing the state burden or using state well.

We have falling rolls. It seems a great opportunity to say ok we have an education budget that will go further. Let’s invest more in state. We use state and given location we’ve used both mixed state and more house price driven. I’d love to hear that message from politicians. So much better than let’s clobber through VAT and damage a sector at the same time.

Not many sectors would take it but madness to damage education.

It is madness, completely agree. Forcing schools to close can really not do any good, it’s really that simple and to be honest it’s madness that we’re even having this conversation. Everyone loses when you limit education options, everyone. The country needs as diverse an education choice as possible, I trust parents judgement of knowing what is best for their children and if the Government can’t support them then they should simply keep out the way whilst people sort it out themselves. Out of their own heavily taxed pocket I might add.

Surely in real life people put a high value on a school being close to their house - friends moved (to buy a bigger flat) and for over a year had one kid in year 5 about 25 min walk away in their old school and younger kid in year 1 at a different school (overcrowded so no space for older kid) a 10 min walk away in the opposite direction! Older kid has now got a place at same school as sibling thankfully but the family struggled for that year. As a taxpayer I definitely don't want to pay for more school transport - which is already bankrupting councils - for ideological reasons. The aim should be to
improve all schools. There are always going to be differences in attainment due to early life factors & parenting - school lotteries won't change that.

Also the case that it works badly in areas where there aren't many options.

We don't have a single state secondary school that is under 50 minutes travel by public transport. How far should a lottery send us?

@OhCrumbsWhereNowPeople’s scruples about journeys to school melt away if it’s a grammar school!

Oh mine too, DD does 90 minutes each way.

However that is fine when the faraway school is significantly better than the closer ones on all measures and it's my choice.

No chance I'd tolerate it being forced upon us - or for a school that wasn't worth the journey.

So what do you mean by not tolerating it? Would you home school or pay for private?

I'd probably opt for online school or move house to somewhere with a better selection.

State boarding also an option.

I'm not going to be forced by any government into their choice of school.

VAT on fees is just one of many ways in which Labour are levelling down education. Another is the cutting back of the advanced maths support programme (AMSP). see e.g.
https://www.ft.com/content/aca9722c-27f7-44f6-9c67-81a33629a481

Re: "The country needs as diverse an education choice as possible", I agree. There also should be routes to high attainment no matter what school you attend or what your family's financial situation is. Whether that's a bursary or scholarship to an independent school, or by accessing schemes like AMSP from within a state school. Unfortunately I think the net effect of the Labours actions so far have been more to close down existing paths than to create any new ones.

The government is trying to have a National Audit Office report showing failures in the SEN system ruled inadmissible in court - this formed a key part of the evidence presented by parents that their children's needs couldn't be met in the state system. There will be an emergency court hearing on Monday.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14603261/sir-lindsay-hoyle-outrageous-legal-school-report-VAT.html

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/speaker-accused-of-acting-outrageously-over-private-school-vat-hike/ar-AA1CO7Jp

This seems to be the report (October 2024)

https://www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/support-for-children-and-young-people-with-special-educational-needs.pdf

https://www.nao.org.uk/reports/support-for-children-and-young-people-with-special-educational-needs/?nab=2

Key conclusions:

"Since 2019, there has been no consistent improvement in outcomes for
children and young people with SEN."

"Families and children lack confidence in a SEN system that often falls short of
statutory and quality expectations. Stakeholders told us that insufficient capacity,
and long waiting times, contributed to low parental confidence."

"DfE does not know with confidence how much capacity should be planned,
and where, to meet future needs."

"State special schools are over capacity which may lead to poor value for
money."

"If unreformed, the SEN system is financially unsustainable."

"DfE has committed to improving the system, undertaking various initiatives,
although there is no evidence these will fully address the challenges"

"DfE has set up programme management processes but has not brought
together its initiatives into a clear actionable plan, making it harder to understand
progress and make decisions."

"DfE has taken steps to tackle local authorities’ immediate financial pressures,
but these will not provide a sustainable system."

"Since 2014, DfE has been aiming for mainstream schools to be more inclusive,
but there is limited evidence of progress."

"The factors influencing rapid increases in SEN can be hard to quantify which
inhibits DfE’s ability to focus on addressing root causes, many of which extend
beyond its remit"

"Although organisations have clear responsibilities, misaligned priorities and
incentives create challenges to a whole-system approach."

"DfE estimates that some 43% of local authorities will have deficits exceeding or close to their reserves in March 2026. This contributes to a cumulative deficit of between £4.3 billion and £4.9 billion when accounting arrangements that stop these deficits impacting local authority reserves are due to end. As such, the current system is not achieving value for money and is unsustainable"

"there remain significant doubts that current actions will resolve the challenges facing the system. None of the stakeholders we spoke to believed current plans would be effective"

So, naturally the thing to do is force more children with SEN into a broken system, and try to have the evidence ruled inadmissible in court.

Good grief. And yet still Labour and their supporters insist that every child’s needs can be met in the state system.

It's almost like it's blind devotion to ideology...

SEND parents in private schools do not have the time nor the funds to commission a full nation wide SEND report, so of course, they should be allowed to rely on the NAO report, as a matter of public policy.
Otherwise, you literally have the issue that the Government with its unlimited funds will win, ab initio. The legal system is there to protect the executive overstepping in precisely this way. What an embarrassment!

Reminds me of when we were preparing for tribunal for specialist provision for DS1. Our LA conveniently forgot to include their own ed psych’s report in the bundle because it stated that he needed specialist.

Labour are obviously shit scared of losing, they now have 5 KCs! They had the knowledge all along that SEND was a problem in their private school VAT and decided to just ignore it, despite their leader being a Human Rights expert and knowing full well this would likely go to a judicial review. And now they are using dirty tricks on vulnerable children and their parents, last minute. How shameful!

This is really bad news @Araminta1003 and @Lebr1

How can Sinclairs, the claimant’s solicitors defend against 5 KCs?

It looks like a stitch up. TwoTier Kier had great sway over the courts when it came to sentencing last summer.

Will the same thing occur. It looks like they will use and abuse every avenue to stop this succeeding. U.K. feeling more and more like USA every day but doing it covertly without the fanfare of Trump.

Rule of Law quietly being done away with and courts complicit. Absolutely shocking.