BA Musical Theatre graduate career prospects

[Bubj]

Does anyone have experience of how easy it is to get roles as a BA graduate in Musical Theatre from a top drama school? Is there enough work out there for these graduates? I suppose the upside is a BA graduate in MT can get acting, dancing, singing or teaching roles. Any thoughts or experiences would be very much appreciated.

Noone can PM at the moment. It's been stopped.

I don't know anything about Italia Conti.

Yes she got a BA in MT.

I insisted my daughter got qualifications before going to drama school. She has Scottish highers and A level music and advanced higher drama so enough for uni entry in Scotland. The degree itself at 2:1 or above she told me can get you into uni onto another degree but things may have changed. . She did an online law degree at a university in Scotland.

Her friends have gone into many different careers. Teaching, opening drama schools, voice coaching vocal massaging. Writing musicals and scripts for films.

I think what I'm saying is it's really tough out there if your face doesn't fit. Her 2 separate agents said she'd do better in her 30s! Who knows but you can't hang around for ever and you have to be realistic about the life. It's brutal.

Some of my daughter's friends are working in the industry very successfully many years later but a LOT aren't. I think there were about 30 in her year. Maybe 10 doing well and a few more getting intermittent roles.
Graduating from a good school is fine but agent representation is important however I think some of the people in the industry who have answered above can answer more accurately.

You've asked a lot of questions. Can you tell us why?

It really is a tough life.

My ex grammar school, 4 A level, A star son works mainly in a coffee shop!

He has a chemistry degree, and a Master in MT from the Royal Conservatoire of Scotland in Glasgow.

He is an experienced amateur performer from age 11, primary and secondary school (lead role) , local operatics (lead role), Edinburgh Uni Footlights - two shows a year (lead and supporting roles), Edinburgh Fringe for five years (lead and supporting roles) and the lead in the final production at the Conservatoire.

He lives in Scotland. He has an agent in London, a well respected performer.

He completed his Masters two years ago. Since, he has had offers to be an ‘elf’ at one of the ‘Christmas’ events, a professional role in a show at the Fringe and another professional show in Manchester.
He does work as a tv & film extra.

Pros
He is performing.
He earns enough from his coffee shop role to live on ( simple life, rented flat, charity shop clothing).
His boss is very flexible with time for auditions and time to perform. He always has his job to return too.
Extra work for some fantastic films, filmed in Scotland.

Cons
Hanging on! He could be ‘something else’ - he daren't take a year out to complete a PGCE in case he loses his agent. He doesn't want to walk away from his dream.
Costs, travelling costs, overnight stays and the pay is no more than his coffee shop role. He was offered an understudy role in a West End show. But weeks in London, pay £50 per week! I am willing to support him, but I can't pay his living costs in London and the rent on his flat back in Scotland. His Manchester role he was lucky enough to be able to stay with a family member.
Costs in going to auditions (though less than in the past due to virtual attendance and sending in auditions)

It really is a rich kid world, sadly.

I would disagree that it’s a tough life tbh - it’s a privilege to be able to either do what you love, and/or have the means to be out of work/be able to drop your day job for auditions and jobs…. If you’ve got into/through drama school then chances are you’re switched on and resilient enough to move into another field if you so choose. It’s not destitution.

Very hard in afraid. I know someone who for years has been a judge on the panel a widely recognised award for young music theatre performers and he says even the winners, who are fantastic (Cynthia Erivo entered and didn't win, let's put it that way!) have an incredibly hard time making a career.

It would be interesting to have a similar thread about music...

I am sticking fingers in ears and saying la la la, it will all be fine and lovely 😂

Music is different in the sense there is less gate keeping - nobody can stop you releasing all the albums you want! But still expensive, competitive and luck plays a big part.

Well....this has been a depressing read......

The reason I am asking questions is because my DD has been at a drama school for 2 years. She is now 16 and has been offered a place at Italia Conti on their diploma level 6, 3-year course in Musical Theatre. She will be allowed to convert it into a BA with an extra year. She is also being considered for the FDA course in Musical Theatre which is a 2 Yr degree with an option to stay on an extra year and get a BA. She does not want to do A levels. She is certain on that. I appreciate however that she will graduate a bit younger than some at 19 which may or may not be a disadvantage.

I guess I was just having a bit of a wobble, wondering whether the future was bright. She is 100% committed and there is no way I would ever squash her dreams and ambitions. People do do well, so why not her.

She would also be interested in teaching within the industry or directing or even getting involved in casting people. (Not sure what qualifications she would need to get into these). She is also open to acting jobs, not just MT, so I feel reassured that she has many interests within the field.

Apart from that she would be interested in working with people with special needs.

I guess I also wanted to see whether people view Italia Conti as one of the top schools. I feel it would offer her excellent triple threat training.

We're in a similar position - but with music. DD will graduate at 19 due to the path she's on as well. For girls I don't think that is a bad thing. Laine take dancers at 16 on their diploma for that reason.

If your DD is in this deep already then your job becomes one of providing support and advice and probably a home and help for a long time!

And yes there are people that make it. The fact that she's open to other professions around the industry is also a huge plus. Casting, becoming an agent - those have all actually appealed to me and lots of actors find that they rather like being the other side of the table.

Conti is definitely up there as a name that turns out well trained working actors, so I don't think you need worry on that front.

If she's already committed then I wish her lots and lots of luck. It is more for those who pondering the idea from a position of not having done a huge amount that I would say run away as fast as you can and convince them to become accountants or dentists instead!

She should go for her dream OP. It sounds like she has a good expectation of what she might do if she doesn't make it, but all the best to her.

My 60 year old SIL went to a grammar school where they didn't even allow her to do Music at O Level or A Level. The head teacher told her she was throwing her life away when she told them of her intentions. She's had a great career. She isn't a big star, but she has sung in some amazing places inc Covent Garden, taught and directed a cathedral choir. She married accompanist, who was at one time a Royal organist. I don't think she looked back after not taking the head teacher's advice

@Bubj

Your daughter sounds really committed. I still stand by what I said about it being tough but she's started young and will grow up very quickly at drama school. There is no room for slacking. If you arrived late when my daughter trained you were sent home and marked absent....after all if the curtain goes up at 7.30 in a show you have to be there.

Also she's young...my daughter did a 2 year diploma in MT before going to ArtsEd and was 23 when she graduated. So even if your daughter doesn't get where she wants time is on her side to work on what she wants to do. My daughter is 32 soon and just completing her legal traineeship (Scotland) so she's behind on earnings compared with other trainees who are 24/25.

MT training gives huge experiences. And neither my daughter nor I have any regrets that she did it. It sounds like your daughter has a lot of experience already .... more than my daughter did. She may well be in the cohort that does really well.

As a mum, it's a lot to watch them get rejection after rejection but to see them perform is amazing

My daughter did her west end debut in a one off performance of a show for charity. All the family went to see it. It was wonderful as she had 2 solos in front of 2000 people. It was worth all the hard work.

Your daughter is obviously very keen so don't tell her the whole of Mumsnet has been down on her tell her to go for it and try. She won't regret it.

My DD sang at my wedding in 2022. It was so special.

Wishing you all the best of luck.

@Charlee555 you say

Cons
Hanging on! He could be ‘something else’ - he daren't take a year out to complete a PGCE in case he loses his agent. He doesn't want to walk away from his dream.
Costs, travelling costs, overnight stays and the pay is no more than his coffee shop role. He was offered an understudy role in a West End show. But weeks in London, pay £50 per week! I am willing to support him, but I can't pay his living costs in London and the rent on his flat back in Scotland.

£50 is not a West End Equity understudy rate. Where was that? What was the show? Depending on the seating capacity of the theatre, a WE understudy is paid hundreds a week plus £200+ subsistence weekly for a set number of weeks after which time the actor is expected to relocate and be based in London, plus about £30 per show if the principle is off and they go on. I don’t have my Equity agreement to hand to give exact figures but can tomorrow if you PM me. If he was exploited he should go to Equity, and if he isn’t a member of Equity, this is why actors should be.

None of those three have Musical Theatre courses.

Just a note of caution about the couple of mentions of MT and straight acting - there'll always be exceptions of course but training in MT can often get you sifted out for non MT roles. The divide isn't fixed but it is fairly ingrained so she should be sure she wants to do MT rather than thinking it keeps her options open for other media because chances are it won't. Beyond that I agree it's harder than ever to 'make it' and while training is important, it is an industry of its own, sustaining the schools and their staff through the fees of hopefuls who mostly won't find work, other than training the next wave.

It used to be said - when students still got grants - that if you managed to get acting work, you should drop out of drama school and take the gig because that was the only goal after all. Now I'd be surprised if that's advised, given that the point seems to be to milk kids for as long as possible. That said, there'll always be others to take their place. Hope that's not too depressing, but good to have perspective in these times. If someone really wants to do it, they'll keep at it and make their own choices.

My daughter graduated in July from an MT BA Hons in MT from Shockout Arts in Manchester. She has gone down the teaching route and is on a Dance PGCE course. One of her friends has got a job with TUI dancing in Egypt. One of her older friends has danced with Pontins for the past 3 years. 2 others are dancing on cruises. None that I know of are dancing in theatre shows but all are employed in areas around dance. My daughter didn't want to go down the performing route but is loving teaching dance.
There are plenty of roles if you are prepared to look at things other than theatre jobs.

I don't know much more, just that he had to turn it down as he couldn't afford the move.

The offer was via his agent.

There are numerous colleges and providers of this course. Many local courses are available and I'm surprised it's only 1000 grads a year. Even the RAM does musical theatre masters. Umpteen providers just in London. I've read about 2% get work in the West End. It's definitely following dreams and not the head! It's not likely to make dc a living so other plans should be thought about.

To be honest I wish I had never started this discussion! It is of course good to have a reality check and I appreciate all your experiences and insight, but I won't lie. It's totally depressed me!

Dd is a head of drama in a prestigious school

Sorry about that, though it's truly no bad thing to be braced for the reality. It is a depressing time in the industry and has always been hard. As pp says, it's a heart not head thing and for many who love it, hope will keep on springing regardless, or they'll find some alternative use for their skills.

Please don't feel depressed about it! Italia Conti is one of the best schools for MT and is a fabulous springboard into the industry. Your daughter must have real talent to get a place there. As you said earlier, why shouldn't it be her that gets ongoing success?! She must go for it and follow her dream and not live in regret that she could have tried and didn't.

My training in MT has given me such a varied working life - I've done west end shows, tv, radio,critically acclaimed plays etc (not trying to blow my own trumpet, just trying to paint a picture). I have also worked less 'glamorous' jobs like waitressing, flyering and bar work. It's the variety of the life that I am so grateful for and how every experience has helped me understand how people tick. I get that some people want security but if you are not one of those people then not ever quite knowing what's around the corner can be exciting...

I'm in my 40s now and have found my niche which uses all the transferable skills from the performing world to support organisations and individuals. I also still have an agent and audition and work as an actor alongside that.

What I'm trying to say is the journey and experiences your daughter will have in the industry will bring her so much and will lead her to where she needs to go. It's not a success vs failure path IMO, it's a creative lifestyle that can be tough but can also be hugely rewarding in and of itself.

My only advice would be for your daughter to find a side hustle that she can build alongside auditions and regular work so she still feels she has some autonomy (not MLM!!)

Good luck!

Yes, it strikes me that being a driving instructor could work quite well alongside acting and theatre, as it’s mostly daytime and you can always move appointments around when needed.

Thank you. Your message did cheer me up. It sounds like you have had some wonderful experiences and opportunities so far.

What kind of side hustles go well with what she wants to do? Also, do you think there are any masters courses out there, that would be a good thing for her to have under her belt to enable her to specialise or offer something more?

Lastly, do you need just a BA in MT to lets say teach vocals or dance or do you need a PGCE?

A few are obviously successful but reality is that for most, working on the stage doesn't happen. I think being prepared for failure, helps you get through it but you also get more out of the highs.,

I also would have thought any "stage mum" already knows the risks and chances of success. It's always been difficult and you need to prepare for this. Thinking about failure is always depressing. You have to remain positive but be alert to the problems. If it doesn't work out, plan B or even C.

Not sure what difference a masters makes. As I said earlier even the RAM does one. Presumably for musicians. It's really about talent and fitting into productions though. I don't see how more study helps.

My daughter's friend opened her own MT school in the north and teaches. She did a teaching diploma part time over a year as did my daughter. They both taught at stagecoach schools whilst training