How's the Private School VAT increase impacting you?

[mumsthewordi]

To private fee paying ...are kids/s still in private ? Are you comfortably still able to afford and happy paying it ?

To state, how do you feel? Have you been impacted by more kids in class or would you expect that to play out this year? Or perhaps you weren't supportive ?
Do you think state schools will improve ?

Full disclosure
A struggling fee paying parent of one kid only other is at state and my oh is an amazing secondary school teacher - we are a divided household indeed at time, but we've made choices best for us.

The state sector isn't just full of deprived/low income parents though. There are also extremely wealthy parents who choose state, why aren't they using their considerable resources and influence? More millionaires choose state than indy by sheer number (not %).
I understand your wish but no government listens to parents and what they want, irrespective of how sharp elbowed they are!

@Worldgonecrazy Now this is just hyperbole! No one rational with no experience of HE would give up work to HE GCSE years unless they had to - eg specialist school failure, with little or low chance of average GCSE passes, no plans for uni etc usually accompanied by catastrophic physical or mental health issues because giving up work usually means financial hardship.

Even if you can afford to give up work and it only impacts UK PLC rather than your family it is a huge commitment and anger and resentment will not be enough to get you through. Your DC would be better off in any state school if you can no longer afford private.

Maybe you can be more rational if you stop being so angry?

Or maybe you are just sounding off? That's OK but sooner or later you have to accept reality and make a rational choice. Cost -v- benefit. Your choice.

Why is it that the privileged think they can stamp their feet and threaten to flounce when policy change affects them rather than the poor and needy?

Which group of people are paying the most tax in this country? Where does the majority of the money come from. Tony Tony recognised it was sensible not to alienate these people. Keir, Bridget, Rachel et al, not a clue.

Secondary state school admissions officer here. No change, except that overall, applications are slightly down and waiting lists are actually shorter than previous years. I understand that some schools in my home counties area are starting to have trouble meeting their PAN due to the decline in student numbers, which is due to the drop in birth rate. Presumably the same will play out at the private schools, except that they will blame it on the VAT thing.

@twistyizzy it isn't full of them, no. But I think that the uproar about school fees shows that you have parents with a high level of willing engagement, expectations about quality of education and opportunities and that can't be anything other than a win to have on board if that desire to fight for the 'best' continues into the state sector, if that is where it ends up. Besides which, indy to Russell group and Russell group/Oxbridge to government is still rather high so who knows what a few more state-educated governors could achieve in the long run!

It’s made me rethink my politics and voting allegiance.

We allow Home Ed (unlike Germany).

we now tax people twice who choose to send their DC to private schools. (Unlike other Economically Developed Countries who give tax breaks).

Brigit Philipson claims to care about ALL children but try telling that to a 14 year old who is settled in their classes and has to suddenly move.
We seem to celebrate and allow tax breaks for those to chose private healthcare but don’t seem to consider this who choose private education.

No impact here at all so far.

I have to say, I really don't understand all the drama here - before this policy 93% of people couldn't afford private school, now it will be 94%. Yet from reading these threads you would think the world was ending!

@PocketSand you describe my situation almost perfection your first paragraph. It is not hyperbole to say I would rather homeschool than send my child to state education.

As has been mentioned frequently, SEN provision in this country is the reason many of us choose private.

You know that pension contributions are literally investing. The pension funds are used to fund companies, built infrastructure. Increased pension contribution are a good thing for the county. You don't pay tax now but will when it is drawn.

Those people, or a lot of them left the UK to work in other places after the UK left the EU. Hence the need to now find taxes from other places. People were repeatedly warned what would happen if we left the EU and were told that food prices would go up and taxes would go up.

'Not sensible to alienate these people'?

Why not, because they'll have sore feet from foot-stomping?

Remember the adage about doors whacking your rearmost anatomy as you depart....

We don’t need this thread to veer off too much ref Brexit. Suffice to say most people who left / never came are not high wage employees.

Since Brexit

>>UK exports are growing – reaching £870 billion in the 12 months to November 2023, and services exports are at an all-time high. The UK economy has grown faster than Germany, Italy, and Japan and at a similar rate to France (end-Q2 2016 – Q3 2023).

The uk needs money to pay for the ageing population, benefits etc etc etc.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/283954/benefit-expenditure-in-the-uk/#:~:text=In%202023%2F24%20the%20UK,expenditure%20was%20242.5%20billion%20pounds

..

I think those moving will, if they allow themselves, be pleasantly surprised. Certainly I would say SEN provision in your average state primary/secondary is light years beyond the average prep or non selective secondary independent.

You do know that Oxbridge take into consideration where GCSE exams were taken? Moving to state for sixth form really makes very little difference for contextual offers either, unless there are other factors in play (with the exception of Bristol).

Not the ‘win win’ you think it is.

I know what they say!

But not the same as starting up an investment portfolio or investing yourself which I was clarifying in that context.

Increases in pension contribution is a very good thing for the individual. But it’s taking up to 120k pa out of taxable income per couple & you can use unused allowance for the past 3 years. If they’re in their 30s now it’s a long time before the state will see any tax out of their pension.

I think has affected our wider communities in two notable ways. These are just my conclusions so may be rubbish.

After the announcement about the VAT rise a local private school said to parents that it was going to try to get more money from its estate.
Fast forward six months and there's a story in the local paper about how the cheapest swim school in the town can no longer use the school's pool. The news story explains that it's because this company only hired the pool for short periods and other companies will hire it for longer and for a higher price. Reading between the lines, it appears that the school has been 'supporting' this swim school to the school's cost. Cue lots of quotes about how the evil private school is killing depriving poorer children.

I completely understand the anger, but what did people expect?

On a kind of related note, one of my DCs is attends various camps in the holidays for an extra curricular activity. They are normally held in boarding schools in the holidays as they have all the facilities needed.

One organization that runs them is a charity that prides itself in giving financial aid to any child who may be good enough to attend but would struggle with the cost; it's really important that all kids can access these camps if they are good enough.

There have been at least two instances where the venue seems to have fallen through and there has been a bit of a scramble to find an alternative. This has also happened for a completely unrelated activity for my other DC. I can't help but wonder if the schools have put their prices up and the charities have has to have a rethink.

If they pay the inflated fees, there is less money for financial assistance for poor kids. If they don't, they have to go for lesser venues, and the very kids who never get the chance to stay, work, and enjoy lovely facilities miss out.

But hey, it's only private school pupils who will be affected by this...

@Worldgonecrazy sympathies my son had an EHCP so LA paid internet school fees and I was the LSA (unpaid of course). He is autistic and ADHD but very intelligent, got 11 GCSEs, 2 A stars and A in maths, physics and further maths and now doing MEng at uni with DSA support.

Could have gone for indi at tribunal but stuck with making state work.

Hope you find a way forward.

If you're moving your DC from state to private and your choice state school is oversubscribed, a crumb of comfort: I live near a very expensive Hants city 50 mins by train from London. It has no normal private secondaries because the states are so good.

Three colleagues joined my NHS HCP team straight from south Asia, bringing DC with them, 2 aged 12/13, one late primary. Two eldest couldn't get into the desirable state at Y8/9 (to the parents' annoyance, they thought it was a given!); both getting taxied to not so desirable schools not far away. Within a term, both got places at the city secondaries.

The third younger one passed the 11+ in the adjacent county and will start in Sept.

It's not all doom and gloom.

Besides classics and Latin (which is taught at my kids' state school but as a GCSE option only), what subjects do you think are not taught at state schools? Surely you don't think music and art aren't taught?
Not actually wanting to teach at a state school is a different (and understandable) issue.

In response to the OP, my kids are in state schools Y13 and Y11 so not surprisingly there have been no kids moving over from private at this point, and the parents I know in these years in private school are sticking it out (through sixth form as well).

There aren't teacher shortages in Art + music in most state schools which was my point. Our local state doesn't offer Art at GCSE.

Any teacher leaving Indy will only be able to move to state if their are vacancies in their subjects. That was my point along with the more niche subjects such as Latin/Russian/Mandarin/Classics

@fordian - it is hardly ideal for kids to move schools several times in a short space of time! How unsettling for those DCs of those HCPs. Other civilised countries do not this - they have guaranteed catchments for kids who move into the area/otherwise displaced. The system here is shambolic.

On a personal level, this policy means my house is probably worth an extra 100k as we are in a good catchment for state schools; it is tax free gain. Loads of people in good catchments are making a lot of money out of this.
We have to pay a bit more for swim club so far and one of our music teachers has already lost a lot of pupils at the local private school so I am upping DCs lesson time as I would like to support the music teacher.

I am completely and utterly against VAT on education. It think it is ridiculous. I am waiting to find out if my Year 6 got their preferred grammar as the competition was even more intense than normal. If not, they will go to an excellent comp instead so we are not impacted from that point of view. As this is DC4 I know it is down to them and us to make the most out of education.
I really feel for all the displaced children and families, especially those with SEND. And all the teachers and other staff worried about their jobs and impacted by this. My DCs would have been so upset if they had to leave their schools they are happy and settled in. No child should have to go through that because of a Government’s dog whistle. So sympathies to all. I cannot see us benefitting from this in the state sector much. If anything, our state schools have successful partnerships with some of the local private schools so we may lose out.

No impact in my locality but my eldest is 8 and there are lots of spaces at our state school(s) there's a massive sign outside our school saying spaces available. Class sizes are below 30, friend's school class size is as low as 18. A local state infants & another primary have had to close or amalgamate year groups due to falling birthrate here so for us at least any extra children would very much be a good thing but we've not had anyone join from the private school. I think the impact might be bigger in age groups older than mine though from what I've read, I don't know how they're finding it.