Whitehall “braced for private schools collapse” 2

[ICouldBeVioletSky]

Starting a second thread as the first one is still very busy, albeit it's veered off in a few directions...

Original article

https://www.thetimes.com/article/e6465c9e-d462-48cb-a73e-74480059a1f3?shareToken=05bf599cd4a2376fe3ce83cdce607100

@Dorisbonson because it’s only free choice for the rich isn’t it

“But the electorate has already decided both on leaving the EU”

The electorate never got a choice on the details of leaving the EU and the hard Brexit we eventually got.
They voted to leave the EU in a vacuum, just like they voted Labour in largely as they wanted a change from the Tories.
The VAT on education in the manifesto would not have been the main reason that many people voted Labour. For most people it’s simply a minority issue that doesn’t personally affect them.
Whereas Brexit has affected pretty much everyone and negatively at that. It’s ok to say the hard Brexit the Tories gave us is bad for the economy and future growth and that a softer Brexit with a single market or at least customs union would be far better.

Same as buying a house in catchment area of best state schools + tutoring for 11+ then?
Money always buys advantage and most parents will try to do the best for their kids which usually means giving them an advantage. Only on MN do posters pretend this isn't true.

Our catchment school, which is the only one where we could gain places for our DC, has recently been rated as inadequate in all areas by Ofsted. We had already made the decision to move our DC, after experiencing serious pastoral and academic issues. Due to a lack of any other options we had to go private. It will only be for the last few years of secondary but is costing everything that we have, and I already felt that is was unfair that we had to pay for a level of education that children living elsewhere in the country get for free. Now I am being told that that seeking anything better than what the government themselves have deemed is an inadequate education for my DC is a luxury that we will have to pay tax on.

For the rich? Umm some schools are no doubt for the rich - those ones where parents aren't affected by the rise.

Speaking from personal experience plenty of parents at cheaper private schools have normal jobs eg Uber drivers, nurses, teachers, takeaway chefs, bricklayers etc. They definitely aren't rich but their kids (many with differing levels of SEN) are affected.

Do you think going over Brexit again and again is helpful though? It's done. The economic arguments failed during the referendum and I don't think even if more had been known that the result would have been much different.

It’s a lot easier to be left wing if you’re rich these days - there’s no need to compromise your principles or sacrifice your children’s education for them, if you can afford to buy a house in the catchment of a great state school.

Exactly. Champagne Socialism as espoused by Starmer et al sitting in their £2 million houses with kids safely in outstanding state schools. It is fine for them to have privilege but no-one else should.
They are buying an education for their kids too, only difference is that they lie about doing so.

“Do you think going over Brexit again and again is helpful though? It's done. The economic arguments failed during the referendum and I don't think even if more had been known that the result would have been much different.”

@Heathbear - what are you on about? The economic relationship with our closest neighbours is never going to go “away”. Do you think the Swiss, for example, aren’t constantly renegotiating their trading deals with the EU every few years?

Exactly how Starmer will negotiate our trading position with the EU and the US now Trump is in, is the single most important economic question facing us today. So he better pull up his big pants and do a good job. As he is deeply unpopular now anyway, he may as well go ahead and put the best economic interests of the country first by getting us back into a closer and more prosperous economic relationship with the EU. How he navigates that line is absolutely critical and his red lines should move.
All the divisive nonsense going after minorities that they have been up to so far does not raise any cash nor prosperity, well apart from selling some newspapers and online subscriptions and bolstering the Advertising revenue of Mumsnet, for example.
The “Brexit” question and how we trade with the EU and what compromises we make to position ourselves optimally is never ever going to go away.

www.politico.eu/article/donald-trump-brexit-uk-us-politics-republican-government-trade-ukraine-nato-diplomat/

The term 'ambitious parents' is making me shudder. We're Oxbridge parents, two of the kids went to a private school for some of their education so I suppose we should be classed in that group. I hope I have been the opposite of an ambitious parent (think my grown up kids would say so).

I support the Labour plans (and barely scraped school fees together when the kids were in private).

Love your username in this context!

Ah so you support taxing parents now your kids have left indy school so there's no danger of you being taxed?
Happy to use privilege but want to price others out of it?
Sorry but hypocrisy like yours is the worst! You are just making indy schools more out of reach for many.

“I support the Labour plans (and barely scraped school fees together when the kids were in private).”

@Climbinghigher - but you do not have to pay the VAT do you? Would you support a retrospective VAT then given you bought privilege in the past? And how about an equivalent of VAT on all additional and higher rate tax payers getting an outstanding state education due to excellent catchment.

Would you support that in principle? You could always donate the equivalent of VAT on what you spend on school fees at the time to educational charities supporting DC with SEND, if you are so supportive.

No, I think state schools bring lots of benefits. We would have been priced out and I would still have supported it.

Adult kids now and with the benefit of hindsight would probably have gone for State all the way.

Also have a severely disabled adult child and am far more concerned about the cuts to social care and the lack of provision for disabled kids - there's a massive need for special school places which features waaaaaaay higher on my concerns for education than fee increases.

Well I earn very little (disabled adult child) so probably couldn't afford to give VAT to those far wealthier than me. But if I could I would gladly donate to fund special schools. I have given an enormous amount of my time over the years though - so maybe that will have to suffice.

Only good state schools offer benefit, it is a postcode lottery as to whether you get that or not. A poor school can be extremely damaging to kids, both mentally and academically.

My youngest went to state school considered 'poor'. It was brilliant for him.

Exactly so. Some of our local states are so awful that we would have to move if we were allocated them.

“Well I earn very little (disabled adult child) so probably couldn't afford to give VAT to those far wealthier than me. But if I could I would gladly donate to fund special schools. I have given an enormous amount of my time over the years though - so maybe that will have to suffice.”

@Climbinghigher - giving your time is just as admirable. But that is very convenient that you do not have the funds but you are happy for others in your exact position many years ago to be priced out and have to pay up and to end up worse off than you and your DC. How so?

And we pay lots of tax already too thanks. We are net contributors already yet are told we should pay more. I earn 35K yet I have broader shoulders than Starmer? I personally think it's immoral for millionaires such as Starmer/Reeves etc who could easily afford indy schools, to demand that the taxpayer foots the cost of educating their children.

You know you can choose to pay more through HMRC voluntary monthly tax scheme.
All the posters on MN claiming they would happily pay more tax yet only approx 100 people per year sign up to the HMRC scheme. Always easier to spend other people's money.

Not everyone has the option to move hence use of indy schools

Yup, and I use a private school currently but am applying for state. If that doesn't pan out, we'll have to downsize and move.

Yeah having a severely disabled child requiring lifelong 24 hour 2:1 care is really convenient.

Honest to god.

That’s great for you and I really wish that had been the case for our DC. Sadly not, although we gave the school as much of a chance as we possibly could, and really wanted it to work.

And confused why everyone would be worse off than my kids? One went to state school his whole school career, the others did a mixture of state Schools for their secondary years. The world didn't end.