Whitehall “braced for private schools collapse” 2

[ICouldBeVioletSky]

Starting a second thread as the first one is still very busy, albeit it's veered off in a few directions...

Original article

https://www.thetimes.com/article/e6465c9e-d462-48cb-a73e-74480059a1f3?shareToken=05bf599cd4a2376fe3ce83cdce607100

Yep. The tax base needs some serious rethinking.

Yes, this is how standards could be raises in the state sector. Smaller class sizes. So we'll need bigger buildings, more teachers, tons of extra curricular activities free of charge....has anyone heard the Government make reference to this? About improving standards, doing what needs to be done to match the independent sector? No, thought not. Just a crazy recruit 6,500 teachers when recruitment targets are being met anyway.

@redwinechocolateandsnacks ‘There are so many other things we should be worrying about than a VAT increase on private education.’

Would you worry about VAT on Education?

But recruitment targets aren't being met particularly in certain subjects like physics and retention is terrible.

Always interesting that no matter how busy threads on this subject are they get removed from ‘trending’’ -this one was there last night but now gone. It’s almost like an effort to bury them.

@LongDarkTeaTime you have no more idea than I as to whether it will work or not. Ideologically (a word very much disapproved of on here). I do not believe in private education (this is allowed). I am a teacher of 34 years and a parent of a young adult with complex needs who had a generally positive experience of state education. I really do not like the way children with SEND are being 'used' in this argument -the press, other media really have not been interested before. My opinion, only my opinion. I am allowed to hold it.

And yesterday people were alluding to something suspicious that threads appear when stories appear in the news. It's a bit like Choose Your Own Adventure but with conspiracy theories.

@redwinechocolateandsnacks - what age group do you teach and which subject? Have you not noticed an explosion of SEND needs then in your work?

In our small state primary school needs have grown significantly since Covid. We are lucky in that we still have a number of high quality experienced TAs (many are former parents), but we are really struggling to balance and it’s quite a privileged cohort for London, really. We have had increases of domestic violence, serious social services referrals, parental suicides, serious altercations between parents, multiple parental breakdowns etc and some very neglectful parenting (no winter coats, overgrown or too small shoes, signing up for packed lunch but sending in ultra processed junk food like 1 Madeline each day for a whole week), many broken families. It’s gone awol since Covid and the same picture is reflected up and down the country and all these issues have a serious impact on the social & emotional well-being of children. A child cannot learn optimally if their basic needs are not met. The mental health crisis in the adults gets passed down to the children and amplified.
With all due respect, unless you have a SEND child in education right now, it really isn’t like it was even in 2019, prepandemic.

And let’s not forget that teachers are also just adults in a society and their mental health is no different to that of the overall population.

@redwinechocolateandsnacks do you believe in VAT on Education?

https://thepienews.com/online-private-school-wave-of-interest-uk-vat-policy/

These kids aren't all going into state sector. Minerva have seen 5 fold increase since Labour came in. Some parents just won't let their kids go to state, especially if they have previously been let down by state schools.

This. In our area 95% of grammar DC are very heavily tutored for up to two years at £50-100 a week

It’s great your your young adult with complex needs had a positive experience of state education. HOWEVER highlighting the specific impact of this rushed and misrepresented policy on SEND kids is not using them, it is advocating for them. I am NOT using my DC I am advocating for them.
From your positive experience I can understand your viewpoint. My experience is of friends kids who had to move last term who are being victimised in their new state schools due to the inaccurate demonisation of the private schools they came from. Professionally I see the greater incidence of discrimination, self harm and worse in the SEND population.
For a minimal, or possibly non existent financial benefit, kids will be harmed. Enjoy every puff on your VAT free vape, or every VAT free bet, but think of the kids distress at the expense on ideology that supports these industries more.

Have to agree with @LongDarkTeatime here, we are having to take our DS11 out of state as the environment is failing him. There isn't sufficient state funded specialist provision for an academically bright child who have severe anxiety and is on the pathway for ASD diagnosis. We either wait potentially years to go down the EHCP route to most likely be told that the mainstream provision is sufficient, or we pay for a private school that has the resources and understanding to deal with it (we have opted for online which already included VAT though TBF).

I had never been an advocate of private education as I hadn't realised (having enjoyed school and an older DD who also does) just how many children the current system is failing. We need investment into alternative provisions, not just adding frills to the current system that can't cope.

Decent AP that provides a wellbeing based education should be funded by the state, but until it is, then private options are vital to attempt to stem the current mental health and EBSA crisis

Technically this is a form of elective home education.
It does seem likely that a non-negligible percentage of those forced out of private schools will go down this route. the fees of online schools are substantially lower than bricks-and-mortar and therefore within budget for those who have been paying private school fees.
It works much better for secondary than primary though. I'm not aware of any online school offering much below year 5. And unfortunately I think it's mainly preps that are going to close.

They're coming at us Home Educator's next.

Araminta1003 thank you for everything you are doing to help children.
This is such an important point and it doesn’t get talked about enough or reflected in policy in government. As a society we are still in recovery from the Covid years.
The government and most schools and employers don’t want to really acknowledge it but it’s still true.

Covid was horrendous for children. I was not working and spent my entire time trying to emotionally cushion the impact on our DCs, baking daily cakes, going for long walks and supporting the learning there was.

after Covid, I realised that middle DC had fallen behind spectacularly- and spent a year or more trying to support him across the curriculum, mainly in maths and English, but also in history, geography, etc. I cannot imagine what it was like (and is) for children who did not have that support.

And that had nothing to do with private / state, just parental input.

I agree. I keep hearing of kids whose autism was not identified due to lockdowns and learning at home. then as and when the kids have been going back in to school there has been a massive bottleneck in assessments. Basically every aspect of the system is now much slower and more contested by cash strapped local authorities than even it was pre Covid in 2019, which is so much worse for the kids (and disproportionately so for the least resourced families with SEND children). The SEND charities seem completely overwhelmed and many have shut their waiting lists for advice and support. Schools are struggling to offer any support which means parents who have the resources will of course be trying to scrape up enough money to try their kids in private schools with smaller classes. This is what makes the timing of the blanket VAT imposition with no commitment to sort out SEND provision in state schools feel so unfair to all kids. More stretched SEND resources in state schools when the kids from private schools arrive, maybe even worse at transition points when whole cohorts who might have gone private, don’t. It’s a grim picture and completely avoidable if Labour had had a joined up plan for SEND education. Rather than allocate no extra money and encourage more kids with SEND to be educated in mainstream which as parents we already know will not work for a lot of our kids with SEND.

Even the anti-aspiration communists at The Times have turned against you. https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/private-schools-splurge-on-luxuries-as-vat-introduced-on-fees-zjcmf27rr

It's a non-story. They go on about a golf simulator (not THAT expensive) and then note this in the middle of the piece: "It has installed a golf simulator paid for by an alumnus donation". In addition, we are talking about schools which are already wealthy, not your local small indy school.

However yes, this policy will make indy schools MORE elitist, this is what soma of us have been saying all along. Take away the lower/middle earners out of indy system and you are left with the truly wealthy for whom VAT doesn't make a difference.

Well, if it is a non-story, it's even more interesting that the Times has decided to print it. Only the Telegraph left that thinks defending VAT-free country clubs is great position for their readers.

Er no you are wrong but OK carry on. This makes UK first country in Europe to tax education because resr of Europe (and most of the world) believe in the value of education, no matter how, or where, it is delivered.

I hope you know that the (tiny amount) income from VAT isn't ring fenced for education? No matter what BP says, if it had been ringfenced it could not be passed through a Finance Bill which can only used for raising general taxation. So it will just go into general taxation pot.

If you think indy schools are country clubs NOW then you ain't seen nothing yet, wait until all the middle class have been priced out!
10K fewer on roll now than this time last year which means it is already costing the taxpayer more, the ones who have left/leaving are from the lower/middle income bracket. Once they have all left then you will just be left with the really wealthy in Indy schools.

To people comparing UK and EU:
UK is probably also the only "first-world" country not using textbooks in state schools.
Also parents in state schools get very vague feedback about their kids' results antil mock GCSEs when it's too late.
If you are genuinely worried about standards of education, you may funnel your energy there as it impacts 93% of the population.

Or if it doesn't impact your DC, it's fine to look the other way?

My DC’s state school uses lots of textbooks. His bag is so bloody heavy because of them. My other DC’s private school uses an iPad for each child with the lesson plans/curriculum uploaded on there. I prefer the latter.