How does my 13+ apply for Grammar school admission without a 11+ entry exam.

[new2england]

Hi,

we are currently based in the US, planning a move to UK in March 2025. We have 2 sons who would need to join Yr 9 and Yr 11 in Sept 2025. Want them to join a selective grammar school but they have not taken their 11 plus. They re sharp so would probably do well in merit exams. Can they take their 13+ /15+ exams at this late stage and join a grammar school in their grade at this late stage?. What options do I have? P. S. We are looking at either Surrey or Kent to move to.

You can enquire about taking the tests but I suspect the biggest barrier will be the lack of actual places available in the schools. Passing the tests won't secure them a place.

You have to apply for an occasional place and the entry requirements will be school specific.

It will be extremely difficult if not impossible to get entry into y11 due to the 2 year GSCE course.

I really think you should delay a year. Starting in year 11 having missed half the GCSE content would be a nightmare in any school.

I don't think this will be possible. I mean. They might be able to take an exam to qualify but the chances of there being spaces waiting for you in a selective grammar in year 9 and year 11 is nil. Plus a selective school (or any secondary ) would be extremely reluctant to have a person join in year 11. You might need to ask if your older son can start out of age cohort in year 10.

Your options are state secondary wherever there is a place, or independent, probably with older child starting in year 10.

Yes, I'd thought putting the oldest back to year 10 might work. But there are still unlikely to be places in the schools you want.

Agree year 11 will be very difficult indeed because the GCSE courses currently take at least two years (10+11), arriving to start y 11 would be almost unheard of

and grammar places are very likely to be hard to come by, it’s not like in the US where living in an area basically gets you into a certain school

private and international schools are more likely to be able to deal with y11 entry.

y9 is def easier in theory but again you’d be having to hope a space was available

Year 11 is a really harsh year to join - year 9 if space might be possible for a Surrey Grammar though you would need a test and it is v competitive

can you afford private at all

There are only grammars in Surrey in Wallington/Sutton area(outer London) and those will have waiting lists as will most likely those in Kent. Your ds would need to take an exam and be put on a waiting list in case an occasional place comes up. Check under In Year applications on the school websites for the process.

Chances of a year 11 place are minimal though and trying to take a full range of gcses with approx 6 months of preparation will not end well. It might be better to look at one year courses at "crammar" used to dealing with international pupils or a school which follows IB curriculum throughout like ACS Cobham or Egham.

This is for the Sutton schools www.sutton.gov.uk/w/in-year-admissions and there is a page about applying from overseas.
And Kent schools www.kent.gov.uk/education-and-children/schools/school-places/move-to-a-different-school#tab-1,5

The US education system is also different to the U.K., have you looked at the year 9 curriculum and worked out which GCSEs your ds would want to select?
What are your ds going to do between March and September?

If you can afford it would you consider the American school in Cobham, ACS. You can join a Facebook group like Cobham mummies and ask for advice re moving to Surrey with a year 11 ds.

I work in this area and totally agree with @LIZS . Avoid a Year 11 move if you can possibly avoid it. If you really really can't, then do a pre Sixth Form one year course before starting A Levels or IBDP in Year 12. You'd have to do the one year course privately, though you could then move into state for Sixth Form, as there's lots of movement at that point. Getting your younger child into Year 9 or Year 10 will be much more straightforward, whether state or private, but your chances at one of the more selective grammars will be very low, as places rarely come up.

I would forget about the grammar schools I think you have missed the boat there. I'm sure your kids are bright but there just won't be any spaces. If an occasional space does come up there will be a waiting list of equally bright kids who also want to go to a grammar school.

It would be madness to move a child into Y11 from a different education system, let alone a grammar.

The chances of a place being available in a grammar for Y9 are also incredibly slim and there will be waiting lists.

You would be better to wait a year and look for a 6th form for your older child and Y10 entry for your younger - or look at the schools in the UK that follow the US curriculum.

If you are looking at state education, be aware that some schools have a 3 year GCSE course with options picked in Y8 and courses started in Y9. DD's school they take some GCSEs in Y10 and have completed all course content by the beginning of Y11.

When is your older son’s birthday? If by chance he is old for his year in America (summer birthday before 1 September), he would technically be starting Y12 in September 2025, which is an easier entry point. Otherwise as PPs suggest, perhaps look into moving him back a year or doing a private fast-track GCSE course (or private school without GCSEs). Y9 is slightly easier, but as others have said, only a tiny chance of a place becoming available, and even then, there will be long waiting lists already.

No this is not going to be possible.

If you can look at private (paid for) schools then you will be able to get your year 9 a place.

You will need to look at a specialist school for your year 11 that takes international students and either get him to do a "pre sixth form year" where he does a reduced number of GCSEs or restart him in year 10 and he does the standard number of GCSEs over 2 years.

Not in your area but this type of thing:

www.kingsely.org/international

If you cannot afford private school then you will need to move into the area and then apply for state (free) schools. You will be assigned schools where there is space.

The UK does not have a catchment system like America does. Your children may well be assigned different schools.

An international school is going to be the best option for the eldest as starting in year 11 would be really hard. If you use state schools you’ll need to take what you’re offered due to waiting lists - it’s very unlikely they will be grammars.

Thanks a Lot...All. Really!. Judging from the strong reaction I realize how improbable it is to start the 15yr old in year 11. If we have to, we can only afford to put one child in private. so based on advice from all we shld think of putting eldest in a private 1-yr "pre-sixth form" and get him to start sixth form the year after. As @PBC suggested he wld be the right age still for sixth form admission. But what to do with 13+ for year 9 entry in sept 2025?. we would really prefer a grammar over state school. would he stand a better chance in Kent that has many more schools compared to surrey?

I think you’re aware bur a grammar school is a type of state school, but one that is academically selective. The other type of state school is a “comprehensive” meaning it’s not academically selective. You also get some schools that are partially selective (ie offer 50 places out of 200 odd to those doing well in an exam), plus some private/independent schools which confusingly have “grammar school” in their title for historic reasons.
And if you hear anyone talking about “public schools” they actually mean private schools, not state schools…!
🤪

No, I cannot make it make sense.

As you’ll have gathered, the only realistic way to get entry to an academically selective school is by going down the private school route.

However, don’t automatically assume that comprehensive schools achieve worse than grammars. That may be the case in grammar school areas if they cream off the top talent, but in areas without grammar schools you get some equally high performing comprehensives, and you are
more likely to have a shot at a place there. It would mean a lot of further research but if you ask the right questions you can get many answers on these boards!

Don't worry about the grammar school option especially if it's driving your home rental/purchase. East Anglia has no grammar schools outside Essex and Cambridge has one of the top performing state 6th form colleges in the U.K.
Either find a college like Padworth for your ds for 1 year or use an American school like ACS Cobham and rent in the catchment area for Esher 6th form college (state) and send your other ds to the range of state secondary schools around Cobham/Esher.
Enrolling a ds in an American school will help with friendships too.

Have you thought ahead to university - as you may know your U.K. based uni admission is driven by the grades your dc achieves in the 3 A levels they study. Your ds needs to make sure he has covered the curriculum bases to be able to take on an A level syllabus.

Also bear in mind that private schools won't necessarily expand a class size if your kid passes a test, you'd most likely still be waiting on someone leaving.

Also, with the new vat on private school fees, there may be many people wanting to move to grammar schools, I really think this won't work. But best of luck.

As others have explained, Grammar schools are so oversubscribed that no one leaves for fun. The only time places become available are if students leave.

Given the importance of year 11 and GCSE’s, it’s extremely unlikely anyone would take their kids out during such an important year so there is unlikely to be a place, even if your kids score 100%
It will either be a comp or private. You have to remember a good comp will be oversubscribed so you’re unlikely to get your year 11 DC in to one of those either. Your best bet is private as money talks

There aren’t any grammar schools in Surrey although if you live in the north of Surrey you could feasibly get to some of the SW London grammar schools (Tiffins etc). Kent is a full-on grammar school county.

You also get some private/independent schools which confusingly have “grammar school” in their title for historic reasons.

You also get regular state comprehensives that have grammar in their name - again for historical reasons. Queen Elizabeth Grammar School in Ashbourne for example.

Public schools were originally schools that were open to all and not run for profit. Obviously that's most schools now but back in the day it was just a few – and they are (obvs) some of the longest-established, very elite private schools such as Eton, Harrow, Winchester.

@new2england I agree, I would forget the grammar aspect as smart, focused DC with supportive parents can get amazing results in a comp.

Look at areas with no grammar schools (most of England tbh) as the comps in these areas truly are; being at a state school that isn't a grammar in a grammar area (likely if there are no year 9 places at a grammar) is not the best thing for a smarter child.

Where else could you live? I presume you want to be near London? Loads of excellent state secondaries in London. What sort of area would work?

Are you planning on US or UK for university, or haven't you thought that far yet?

I don't think grammar is necessarily impossible for the Year 9 entry in an all-grammar county like Kent, in one of the less selective grammars (some are 'super selective' and tend to be the most highly sought after). But if a grammar place is uncertain then you're better avoiding a full grammar county, as the non-grammars will be less comprehensive than in another county where only the top 5% (or none at all) go to grammar. The challenge is that you're not going to be able to secure a state school offer until you've got a confirmed address and you're imminently arriving.

Given the importance of sorting something out for your older child, I'd have thought the priority should be to find a good school for a one year pre sixth form course and work around that.