Kent test results

[Empathy101]

There was an article in the Kent Messenger earlier in the year (March)that said private school pupils (that took the Kent test) pass rate in 2023 had dropped to 25% from 59% in 2019.
The pass rate for state school pupils (that took the test - remember not everyone takes it ) in 2023 was 45%
I dug in a bit more as there have been some freedom of information requests (FOI) and very academic prep schools (like Granville etc) were seeing less than a 3rd of pupils passing in 2023 vs almost all a few years before.
Kent test scores are standardised and there are small adjustments for age (so younger children aren’t disadvantaged) - but these results don’t make sense?
The only possible explanations are state school pupils are getting 11 plus tutors at a far greater rate than private school pupils or the standardisation of scores also adjusts for state vs private ?
Im no conspiracy theorist - but understanding a few things around statistics - this dramatic change doesn’t fit with any logical model.

Like I said, what actually makes a difference is the prep outside.

You can't generalise advantage based on school type. It depends far more on parental input.

ie any discrimination isn’t justified.

There are far bigger differences within each group (state/private) than between them. There's no advantage based on school type. Only on individual parent behaviour.

When thinking about advantage, you do need to think about whether any differences are significant.

The groups are slightly different, sure:

State kids will on average have shorter commute time so longer to study: advantage to state

Private kids may have done NVR familiarisation: advantage to private

State kids teachers have no incentive for the kids to stay at their school (and so according to a pp allow exam practice in after school club): advantage to state

Private kids do more sports in school, which is good for health: advantage to private.

But none of these are actually significant.

It's not me who is prejudiced...

What a ridiculous post. The issue with people like you is that when privilege is so embedded, you can't even recognise it. Pathetic.

And the issue with people who have a chip on their shoulder is that they can't see how closed-minded they are. And how they just see what they want to.

Typical of your prejudice to assume something like that.No chip here. My children are doing fantastically well thank you at top universities on their own merit. Keep telling yourself that the odds were stacked against yours when they don't make it.

That's your second comment where you've made implied insults against my DC.

I recommend you do some introspection about why you are behaving that way.

Don't be ridiculous. I don't know the first thing about your DC! Do you understand what hypothetical means?

And just one other point, in my direct and recent experience, prep school DC tend to start slightly above state school DC due to their pre-grammar boost but the advantage soon erodes and the state school DC very soon overtake them. In my DC's school the vast majority of the medics and Oxbridge destinations were DC who went to state primary.

“In my DC's school the vast majority of the medics and Oxbridge destinations were DC who went to state primary.”

Well personally I believe some state primaries are better academically than some prep schools. So what are you trying to say with that? That statement means zero.

I am also pretty confident that if I gave up my day job and homeschooled my DC would on academics alone had the best outcome. So now what? How is anyone ever going to second guess parental vs school input? All they can ever do is use simple metrics like household income, highest level of education of the parents, state vs private, quality of state vs private. It’s never ever going to be an exact science. One can only hope they can spot genuine cases of children from difficult backgrounds (and personally I would always exclude homeowners and university educated parents from that but in reality top unis do not, they pay lip service for political reasons).

I am really interested in this.

My children go to a private school in Sevenoaks and the results in the spreadsheet look accurate to me. In 2023 over 2/3 of pupils passed but in 2024 it was less than 1/4.

What is going on? Looking at all of our local schools grouped together like that the drop in results for all of them is stark. Someone upthread mentioned Somerhil - yes wow but it is a similar story for all of the schools I know of.

What it means is that generally speaking DC in prep school are advantaged relative to DC in state schools prior to starting grammar, smaller classes, more advanced in curriculum and prepped for 11+ in school. However, this is not natural academic superiority and the leg up they have had is very quickly eroded. In our experience the prep school DC generally had a bit of an academic advantage when they started grammar in year 7 but by middle of year 8 it was DC from state schools who stood out as the real high achievers and self starters. It was also those DC who really shone further up the school and who secured the best Uni places. Coincidence possibly but this was the case in different grammars with several DC and in different year groups.

Bingo. This is exactly how you are coming over.

What we need to establish is whether the numbers for the private schools in the 2024 tab of the FOI request are correct.

Kent County Council have told @Empathy101 that they'll look whether they've made a mistake pulling that data together.

It would be really great to validate it independently as well! If your DC are at a prep school in the spreadsheet, perhaps you'd be able to gather that information for your school? Does each year have a WhatsApp group or similar, which current year 7s might still be on even though they've now left? Do you know anyone in that year who you could ask to get a message out: tell them about this anomaly and ask for everyone who entered the Kent test to get in touch with you (or your friend) and give the pass/fail result. The result is so stark for 2024 that you should be able to tell if it's just a mistake in the spreadsheets even if not everyone replies.

Note that the question is about pass/fail of the Kent test, not whether they eventually went to Grammar.

@strawberrybubblegum - would it not be in the interest of those prep schools themselves to sort this out? Are they not emailed the results, just as state primaries are? Is it not their job to “market” for those schools and to sort out any data in the public domain that may be incorrect?

@farmerinthedell And it would be even more useful to do similar for current Year 6 in your school - who are still around, which makes it easier. (I would get a message out to both years)

This year isn't in the FOI spreadsheet, but you could then see whether this year's results reflect 2023 (which would support the theory of an error in the FOI for 2024) or whether this year's pass/fail results are similar to the lower 2024 results KCC published (which would warrant more looking into - and those parents could pursue)

Do the prep schools get the results? I'd expect the school to know their leavers destinations, but assumed the result would go to the parents.

But we're not in the area, so I don't know the process.

Schools get the results a week earlier so that the headteacher can appeal, in theory. I am assuming that also applies to independent schools and that if anything, they would be more not less likely to appeal for an able student?

Ah, OK. So perhaps @farmerinthedell could approach her school directly, to ask whether the FOI numbers for 2024 were right?

I suspect the school would be reluctant to share that information externally.

Leavers destinations will be only part of the story - many take the 11plus as a back up but may still go into private secondary .. and remember many of the private secondaries are age 13 intake
Anyways the council has said they will revert.

When I say 2024 results I mean the kids that sat the eleven plus in September this year and have only very recently received their results. Does the 2024 tab in the spreadsheet actually refer to the year before?

The FOI request was from May this year, so the 2024 tab must be for 2024 entry.

The test where the results have only just come out would be called 2025. It would be really interesting to get an idea of results for that.

The 2024 results are wrong in that case. I know more pupils passed than are listed as passing at my children's school.

That is great news! Do you know whether the number who passed is more in line with the previous year?

@Empathy101
Your figures are not correct. As the Headteacher at The Granville School, I can assure you that our results have not declined. In 2023 we had a 92% pass rate from the children who sat the 11+. Only one child from the cohort did not achieve a grammar school place. This has been the case in the past 3 successive years. I am all for open discussion and debate, but please, when naming an organisation, make sure of the information before you write it as fact.

Thankyou for you response - but the information I took was directly from Kent County Council from another individuals freedom of information request - looking at the data (and the Kent Messenger article re private school pass rates having plummeted) I posted here based on that in the public domain information from KCC.
I also sent a separate query to KCC - who said they “think” the data is wrong that they published but need to check and don’t know how long that will take to get back to me.
Your ire should be with KCC and not me - it is the fact I found the anomaly and have challenged that hopefully means the information in the public domain will be corrected. I went on empirical information from KCC - perhaps as I always tell my staff - they should checked their answers first..