VAT on after school clubs (state + private)

[bravefox]

We have two kids, one in private, one state.

Private school has just done booking for after school clubs next term. I've had to pay 20% VAT on these.

State school does club booking next week. Will these be subject to VAT too?

Seems a bit weird that one is VAT-able and the other might not be. Some of the clubs are even worth the same provider!

If you go to a private music teacher out of school whether a private or non private school parent if their turnover is under the threshold - ie about £100k a year then there is and will remain no VAT. Some services like therapy are VAT free but music lessons, hair dressing, legal services etc have never been VAT free. Every private school my children have attended since the 1980s has allowed music teachers in for one to one lessons and the teacher invoices the parent ie the school is not part of the contract. Usually the teacher is under the VAT threshold and so no VAT is charged - I suspect without checking that will remain the case.

Anyway hopefully the courts will cut down the whole legislation. I would imagine even with being expedited it is likely to be months of many court hearings though not just one quick one.

Education is never a luxury, in any form. Hence why it is illegal to tax it across Europe.

Will have to agree to disagree, private education is a luxury same as private healthcare. Same if I used a private tutors. I don’t think you will be able to change my mind that private education isn’t a luxury.

State education and the NHS are minimum requirements and not a luxury. Access for everyone to education and healthcare is not a luxury. If you choose to pay for addition education or healthcare that’s a luxury.

Luxury noun

1. a state of great comfort or elegance, especially when involving great expense.

Shame that the EU and Europe disagree with you

Thats fine they can, politicians who set the guidelines for these countries can disagree with me.

It’s not every person in the whole of the EU or Europe ( esp as I am in Europe 😂)

Luxury or not it's irrelevant - VAT isn't a tax on luxuries

As we all benefit from a well educated population, education is never a luxury.
If you really are in Europe then you will know it is illegal to tax education under EU law.

It’s because I said private schools are a luxury….it wasn’t about VAT

I’m in the UK which is part of Europe? Unless I missed which continent we live on!

Not part of the EU though. Only Brexit has allowed Labour to bring this policy in

I wonder if it depends on whether the peri teachers are employed by school or self employed? At our local private school, the music lessons have gone up by 20% but they employ their peris.

Yep same here

I've just been sorting clubs for next term and the bill has had VAT added. Seems wrong but I am sure there will be plenty that disagree!

I don't think the private music lessons will have VAT as we already pay that direct to the outside teachers that come in - remains to be seen as haven't had the invoices yet.

Looking, I expect on your last point that will remain as it is as there is a contract between the music teachers who come in to give lessons and the pupil's parents in those sets up. If a teacher earner turned over more than £100k approx in their private practice then they would have to add VAT.

on VAT and luxuries in general that is the principle - that is why basic foods in the UK have no VAT on them ( meat, fish, nuts) but fancy ones do (and why there is a lower rate of VAT (8%?) on heating. No VAT on children's clothes.

VAT has nothing to do with luxuries. Just look at rating for ice cream Vs frozen yoghurt.
Designer kids clothes are VAT free, surely noone is claiming a cashmere jumper is an essential for a child?
The VAT on education is nothing to do with luxury.

I saw the Sylvia Young theatre school now has to add VAT to their Saturday school drama and singing classes so the price has gone up by 20%! This is for the Saturday school provision, not even the main (private) school. such a terrible policy.

Yep, all Arts provision will have VAT applied if delivered on premises of an indy school. Includes Royal Ballet etc.
Way to go making these things even more elitist Labour!

But as they already are elitist I really don’t see that it matters.
No one was especially concerned for the state school parents that couldn’t afford these things before the VAT exemption was lifted - why should state school parents now be concerned for the private school parents that can no longer afford these activities? Should we be fighting for private school parents to have things we can’t afford? Personally I think we should be fighting for children in actual poverty.

This policy will start biting and hopefully gain more traction from state school parents. No skin in the game as don has left public school but I am appalled at this spiteful ill thought out bullshit
@FloralGums its not a race to the bottom

I used to help organise extra curricular stuff for kids. It depends on the organisation providing the activity (some are charities, some are too small to pay VAT, some do charge VAT but absorb it). Some depends on the contract (in-house, LA led). Some companies have charitable arms and will provide low cost options to some areas and use their commercial arm to help cover these costs.
VAT is really complicated!

Because many of the people participating in these extracurriculars are state school parents? Our school run a great number of programs after school / weekends / school holidays that are widely attended by local (and sometimes not so loca) families. Some are run by the school and some are run by third parties on school premises - all now 20% more expensive. Based on the ones we have participated in, half to two thirds of participants are state school children.

of course we should fight for children in poverty, but it is silly to think that happens by reducing access to music, sports, stem provision for those not on the breadline.

Have a look through the VAT rates.

You can see that gambling and betting is exempt

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/rates-of-vat-on-different-goods-and-services#sport-leisure-culture-and-antiques

but children’s car seats are 5%.

But subject to gaming duty

All of our extra paid clubs are being billed directly to the parents by the teachers so we don't have to pay the Vat. Same for music lessons and LAMDA

YY, @LittleBearPad - VAT isn’t the only tax that can be added to goods and services, so it’s not the gotcha PP thinks!