Secondary school admissions - but possible ECHP in the future after the deadline?

[Ilovechocolatespread]

Hi, but of a unique situation but hopefully someone can help advise. Submitted school choices recently. DS took 11+ and borderline passed , we decided that grammar wasn’t for him and the local comp is best so we’ve put that down as our first choice.

In the last 2 months we’ve discovered that both DS and I are very likely to have some form of ADHD. We are currently being assessed - mine through my GP and his through his primary school. He doesn’t present at school and it’s very bright so didn’t come under their radar but the school have taken my concerns seriously as he’s a completely different person at home. We are very confident he/I have it, it was pretty much a lightbulb moment!

When submitting the school admissions , the online application asked if he has an ECHP in place, to which I said no, because technically he hasn’t yet. His school have told me that if I wait until his officially birthday to enter it (December) then I wouldn’t have to submit it twice.

My question is, I feel that the admissions board need to be made aware of his upcoming referral but the deadline is 1st November. Has anyone had any experience submitting secondary school applications whilst being assessed for ADHD?

Personally I would just submit the application. He currently isn’t diagnosed so the information you’re giving them is correct at this time. If it changes in the future you can inform them then. He also might not require an EHCP. They can be difficult to get.

Submit the application

Diagnosis does not equal an EHCP

You don't get an EHCP for a diagnosis OP.
I wouldn't have thought an EHCP is close to happening if he doesn't present with difficulties in school and is doing well enough that he recently passed his 11+?

Yes , apologies, I’m very new to this. I thought a EHCP would be something he would get if he’s officially diagnosed, but it seems not. I need to do some more research I think. Thank you all and sorry again.

He won't get an EHCP if he's functioning fine at school. Also it could take a very long time for a diagnosis and an EHCP if they think he qualifies.

You only get an EHCP if the school cannot meet his needs as part of their day to day offer. Most children with ADHD will be deemed to have their needs ‘met’ as part of the SEN provision at school.

My son has ADHD, diagnosed part way through secondary. He is on the SEN register at school which means he has a keyworker and a written plan of adaptations which all his teachers should be aware of (things like he sits at the front of class, he gets reminders to keep him on track, they cut him some slack about his lack of organisation, he’s been assessed for extra time in exams). An EHCP will only be necessary if a child has significant needs meaning they can’t be met by reasonable adjustments within the school SEN budgets e.g. if they need a 1-2-1 member of staff or a special school or resource base placement.

To add to pp a diagnosis of adhd doesn't mean you would need an EHCP...
We have a lot of children in my school who have a diagnosis but don't require additional support in lessons beyond what a teacher can do.
Don't put EHCP on your application form if you don't have one. It just causes admin issues!

Not ADHD but I’ve got one DC with ASD in secondary school, and one DC in Year 6 who’s on the waiting list for a neurodiversity assessment.

I’m not entirely sure what you’re hoping to gain by making the admissions people aware of the upcoming referral, but my personal feeling here is that you should submit the form without waiting.

Firstly, getting a diagnosis will take time.
DC2 was accepted onto the waiting list for assessment over 18 months ago (which was about 3 months after the referral was submitted), and we’re still nowhere near an actual assessment date. Private assessments may be faster, but even if you go that route, I’d still think it unlikely that it’d all be settled by December.

Secondly, have you actually applied for an EHCP yet? Or is it just something you’re considering?
The guidelines say that you don’t need to wait for a diagnosis to apply, you need to show evidence that your child needs the extra support.
E.g. my undiagnosed DC2 currently accesses extra support in school because of his additional needs, and we’d be able to use that as evidence to support any EHCP application.

If you haven’t applied for an EHCP already, then it’s vanishingly unlikely that you’ll have one in place by December. Assuming everything went smoothly with your EHCP application - as in your LA agrees to do an EHC assessment and then agrees to do an EHC plan without you having to appeal an initial refusal - then you’re still looking at a timeline of up to 20 weeks for the EHCP to be finalised (or it’s supposed to be a maximum of 20 weeks, at any rate).

Also, our LA claims that all schools can handle kids with ADHD so that doesn’t count as an exceptional medical / social need for a particular school in their eyes (unless of course you manage to get an EHCP naming a particular school).
So from that point of view it didn’t feel particularly relevant for us to mention DC2’s being on a neurodiversity assessment waiting list on his school application form.

And just to add to my previous post, a diagnosis of ADHD wouldn’t guarantee your DS an EHCP as you’d still need to provide evidence of significant extra needs that can’t be met with something else like an SEN support plan.

Thank you all, I understand a lot
more about how it works now. So yes it seems like an EHCP isn’t needed as he doesn’t present at primary school.

He’s a model pupil and masks his symptoms whilst there but at home (and it’s as soon as he exits the classroom door) all of his frustrations come spilling out as he’s kept them in all day. Lots of angry and emotional outbursts and has issues regulating himself, has difficulty listening and no sense of danger etc. I have to really push him to do his homework, he’s very capable but does not want to do it. It’s tough to deal with especially as no one else sees it.

So my next question is, I’ve submitted the application, do I need to inform the admissions team about his upcoming ADHD assessment seperately? I can only assume his behaviour will get worse in secondary left unchecked (and also adding hormones into the mix) . Thanks to all who can advise, the school we’ve put down has brilliant pastoral and SENCO care so I’ve heard, so I would like him to go there.

Have you put down more than one school? I hope so. If not, you can add schools up until the deadline, I believe.

The approach that this system takes is that any school should be in a position to deal with a range of SEN. The lovely SENco you mention might move on, say. So all applicants are sorted on admission criteria (distance, catchment, sibling link, feeder primary etc) rather than additional info.

Are you within the recent furthest distance admitted of the school you want?

So he doesn’t have a diagnosis of ADHD? Even if he did you would generally need at least a terms worth of evidence before applying for an EHCP, you can apply with less, but they it is almost guaranteed to be turned down initially and at appeal.

I have ADHD, I didn’t have a statement (which is what they were previously called at school), its likely any schools provision for a K-code student will be more than sufficient for him.

For an EHCP there needs to be a significant need, our son was unable to get one despite having a hearing impairment, attachment difficulties, difficulties with emotional regulation etc because he was getting on fine at school, so the usual stuff the school could offer a child on the K-code register was more than sufficient for him.

If he is diagnosed with ADHD this will be taken into consideration when he sits exams, however lets imagine he is awarded restbreaks, he can only use these if its his normal way of working, so if he doesn’t bother during usual assessments, lessons etc they will not be his usual way of working so should be removed.

No, sadly, the admissions team won't care about his assessment. Even if you did tell them, it would make no difference to the school allocations process.

What will happen is when your son is offered a place at a school and you accept it, his primary school will pass on information to the new secondary school. That would be the time to contact the new SENCO to discuss your son's needs.

The theory is that all schools should be able to support children like your son. It's a bit rubbish, because as we know, not all schools are equal in their SEN support.

My advice is not to pre emptively worry about symptoms getting worse at secondary if your child has ADHD. The structure of the day is very different, lots of natural movement breaks in the day with changing locations for lessons, different faces every 50 minutes.

Hi OP, I started some EHCP support threads on here which I suggest you read/visit for accurate information.

The IPSEA website is also very helpful.

There is some misinformation on this thread already. A child doesn't need to be academically behind or struggling to get an EHCP and nor does the school need a certain amount of time collecting evidence (that's something LAs may say, but it's not required by the SEN Code 2014).

Just in summary:

As you have figured out, diagnosis, EHCP and the secondary school admissions process are separate. Yes there is a box to tick for EHCP in the admissions process but realistically it takes around 2 years to get one at the moment so you'd need to start in year 4 to have much chance of that.

I think you've been wise not to go for grammar as they don't have much experience with SEN or EHCP and have few resources.

I am the mum of an academically able DC in year 7 at a comp. She has ADHD and ASD and has an EHCP. We are in a grammar area.

EHCP support thread no. 3 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5077140-ehcp-support-thread-no-3

The previous threads are linked from the top of this one.

I can certainly understand wanting a particular school because of their brilliant pastoral care and SENCO care - I know when we were ranking secondary schools on my DC’s application forms, we were basing our preferences on how good we thought the pastoral care and SENCO care were.

But. Does your LA have an oversubscription criteria where a child having additional needs would make a difference? And if it does, would your DS be eligible for it? Bearing in mind that you’d almost certainly have to provide supporting documentation from doctors or other professionals backing up your preference.

While my LA does put children with very exceptional medical needs directly related to school placement second only to looked after children in their oversubscription criteria , they’ve specifically said in their application guidance notes that they do not consider ADHD, diagnosed or not, to be an exceptional medical need as they consider that all schools are able to effectively manage ADHD.

Of course in reality some schools have better SEN support than others, but that’s not acknowledged by the applications process.

@Ilovechocolatespread he sounds very similar to my son. We had a lot of issues at home throughout late primary and school didn’t see it. He had an ADHD assessment in Y6 and didn’t get a diagnosis as not displaying enough difficulty in a school setting. We had lots of meetings with school SENCO in secondary and it wasn’t until I got the SENCO to send a questionnaire for ADHD traits around to every teacher that we started to get somewhere. He wasn’t causing enough trouble to be on the radar as he is not hyperactive. Medication and the SEN plan has made a huge difference, hopefully in time for him to do ok in his exams.

You can get EHCPs for DC who mask at school, who don’t have a diagnosis or who are academically able. Although it can sometimes take an appeal or two. Contrary to what has been posted in the thread, the vast majority of appeals are upheld so an appeal is not almost guaranteed to fail. However, you wouldn’t have one by the admissions deadline or even DS’s birthday even if you didn’t have to appeal, so it’s good you have submitted an application. You don’t need to make the schools aware at this point about the ADHD referral. Presumably you have already spoken to the SENCOs at the schools you have considered. Once you know what school DS has been allocated, you can speak to them again.

If you did decide to request an EHCNA, you do not need to wait a term (or 2 as it is often said) to collect evidence. That is not stated anywhere in law. It is a myth LAs and some schools like to perpetuate.

EHCP support thread no. 4 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5197351-ehcp-support-thread-no-4 just realised I needed to start a new thread as the previous one is nearly full.