Teachers' strike

[purits]

Considering that teachers are constantly moaning about the National Curriculum, teaching to the test, Ofsted, targets, league tables, disruption in the classroom, etc etc etc: why is the first strike for ages about pay (for them) instead of about conditions (for the kids)?

But Stix, I'm more than happy for my pay to be compared to the pay of others who are equally qualified. I haven't seen anyone suggest otherwise.

Of course a payrise will not improve standards. This has nothing to do with standards in education. To suggest that one would lead to the other would suggest that teachers are less dedicated because of their pay level. This just isn't true for the vast majority of teachers.

And of course it's an inconvenience to many parents. Inconvenience is what strike action is about. Most parents only ever consider teachers pay and conditions when it affects them. I'm not at all saying I don't sympathise with parents having to find alternative arrangments. I know it's not easy. I know of another teacher whose school is open today yet her children are off. She cannot take a day off and has had to farm them off to friends for the day.

The 'average' figures that are being quoted are not average for a classroom teacher. They are averaging out the figures for all the people involved, including the head teachers. My head erans over 5 times my salery.

I was talking to the other science teachers today. All your 'bog standard' classroom teachers. None of us are making anything near £34,000.

"DH heads a dept which is partly staffed by those who are not qualified in the subject, who struggle with classroom management and one who is barely intelligible."

Why? Why does he head up such a department? That makes him a crap manager. Anyone in industry, to cover their backsides, would refuse to do the job if not given the proper resources. This is the sort of thing you should be striking about!

I expect he does it because the head has decided to recruit these teachers, or because like me, they teach outside their subject area.

Some may struggle with classroom management as they are NQTs, and unfortunately, other teachers are too busy to sit in on all their lessons.

It's fine calling someone a crap manager if they have the power to change things, but don't. HoDs in a comp don't have the power to change much, especially not who is employed, or who can be sacked, so he's working within the system he's been handed, that doesn't make him crap, but the system IMO.

We can't refuse to do the job, and as for the resources, I would point out that my husband calculated that it cost me approx £1.5k per annum to teach after I'd shelled out for my textbooks, resources, professional bodies, pens, pencils, laminators, photocopying etc.

Ok after a quick poll of friends all of whom have degrees and higher, one of which has a Phd.
Hydrologist £22,000
Account team leader £24,000
Research engineer £23,500
Peads Nurse £22,500
Creative Director £26,000
Research biologist working with infertility £27,000
I'll stop there. Non of these people get anywhere near 13 weeks holiday per year.

If this has nothing to do with standards, then teachers just want a pay rise.
A lot of parents do consider teachers conditions and pay as this affects our children. We don't think of you just when you go out on strike. Going on strike just niggles us and takes away from our families.
You have a right to strike, you have a right to want more pay, but do you actually have the right to "take" money away from other families due to your actions? And by doing this are you getting the parents behind you?
It's MO that teachers would get a lot more support if on strike about conditions and standards.

Belgianbun no I wouldn't.. because these days off are for further training, which benefits our children. Striking because the pay rise isn't enough is through choice and imposes on others well being.

well being* for want of a better way of putting it.
I'm not actually agains teachers by the way I just think the strike could have been for better reasons.. maybe better payrise AND conditions!
( oh and family dinner time recently has be full of debate about this with teachers in the family LOL)

Stix, what about the teachers who haven't gone on strike? If you are going to accuse teachers of taking money away from families - a lot of them like members of ATL haven't done so, neither have the NASUWT, so please acknowledge that.

You may also like to consider that many are going on strike to get more for their own families and pay their bills. When I taught in the state system my salary was a second income as my dh has a good job and it helped to pay the school fees, but I would not have liked to try to live on my salary and house, clothe and feed my ds and myself.

Strikes are counter productive whichever way you look at it, someone is going to be inconvenienced...but that is rather the point surely?

ST sorry I should have acknowledged that not all teacher or unions are striking at the start. I took this as read.

And I know it is hard to live just off a teachers wage. ( which is why I also work.)
Yes it would be nice for DH to bring more home.
I would be Standing out with my banner along side DH if I thought that a) it would have an affect, b)If teachers (NUT ) were really yelling about resources and materials, text books and pencils etc. Conditions in which they work and pay rises.

This could go on forever. IMO it is just a shame that NUT seem to be only thinking about pay.

"It's fine calling someone a crap manager if they have the power to change things, but don't. HoDs in a comp don't have the power to change much"

Why not? Why does anyone take the job then?

"especially not who is employed, or who can be sacked"

Again why not? It's what any other professional would do.

"so he's working within the system he's been handed, that doesn't make him crap, but the system IMO."

Who is going to change the system if not the people who work in it!?

I have no problem with teachers getting a professional wage if they start behaving like professionals!

Well, I shall reserve my sympathy for people who have had to take a day's unpaid leave - like the woman on the One O'clock news, single mother who works in a cafe and lost her wages for today because her eldest child's school was shut.

All of the strikers then, as well as that woman.

oh edam you have a good heart for everyone really

Sorry back again after coffee - can you tell me what the problem the teachers have with the recent pay rises that have been given to them and then promised over the next few years - I thought they were pissed that their salary didn't rise as per the retail price index - funny thing is I work in the private sector and when I said to my boss - hey boss - how about a pay rise to cover the increased cost of living he laughed, raised and eyebrow and said - you seen the state of the economy lately!

Can someone please too tell me why they chose to go into a profession that they thought was so badly underpaid - I don;t go for this vocation lark so why chose to be a teacher if you know the pay is shite?

BB OMG you believe by striking you will save all of us?? High horse my arse. It's about the fact that the pay rise given wasn't enough.IMO
I don't see the days strike helping ALL Public sector workers.. I could be wrong... maybe the forces or the nurses will suddenly get a fair pay rise because the NUT went on strike for one day! DUH stupid me.
FGS don't bring in the nurses etc because one union had a day off! Which has just narked people and some of those people actually would like to see better pay and conditions for our public sector, but instead the NUT come across as whining.

Because I love teaching. Because I actually like working with the kids and trying to make sure they meet their potential. because I'm passionate about my subject and I'm good at it, and I want to pass that love of the subject on to the next generation.

What I don't like is people (who don't do me job) telling me what a cushy number I have . Funny that.

MB i'm not telling you you don't love your job or that your not good at it, nor am I telling you that you have a cushy number.
It's just my opinion that you should have better working conditions.

I was answering the question about 'why go into the profession if the pay is shite'

Of all of my university friends, I'm the worst paid. I'm just earning around the same I was in industry when I quite to have the kids......and that was 12 years ago when the money bought a lot more! I wouldn't swap jobs I love teaching, but there has been a stream of posts about how teachers should basically just put up and shut up.

Sorry MB