Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Education

Join the discussion on our Education forum.

Original poster

Teachers' strike

144 replies

purits · 24/04/2008 09:11

Considering that teachers are constantly moaning about the National Curriculum, teaching to the test, Ofsted, targets, league tables, disruption in the classroom, etc etc etc: why is the first strike for ages about pay (for them) instead of about conditions (for the kids)?

OP posts:
cornsilk · 24/04/2008 09:13

conditions for the kids? What do you mean?

SquonkTheBeerGuru · 24/04/2008 09:15

how long have you got?

a) teachers' pay is crap and not enough for a family to live on.

b) teachers' first loyalty is to their own families.

c) teachers aren't paid enough to put up with the crap you menioned in your OP.

d) teachers don't get paid for a hell of a lot of the work they do.

e) teachers' pay is crap.

kids bugging you already?

Original poster
purits · 24/04/2008 09:16

Umm ... perhaps I mean "National Curriculum, teaching to the test, Ofsted, targets, league tables, disruption in the classroom, etc etc etc"
RTQ

OP posts:
Twiglett · 24/04/2008 09:18

why the hell should they? .. it should be the parents who campaign against the denigration of the National Curriculum, teaching to test, inefficiencies of Ofsted, how pathetic the targets and league tables are

they deserve higher pay and I'm fully behind their strike action

Twiglett · 24/04/2008 09:19

have you written to your MP about these subjects purits (I did and got a 4 page form letter of bollocks back from teh Education Minister)

cornsilk · 24/04/2008 09:20

National curriculum - improves conditions for the chn, as does Ofsted, targets, league tables make no diff to the kids, disruption in the classroom ? Don't know what you mean by that. All of those things are a pain in the arse for teachers - not affecting 'conditions for the kids' in a particularly negative way.

Twiglett · 24/04/2008 09:24

I actually fail to see why anybody would think that teachers teach for the 'joy of the children' .. they aren't nuns or priests. They may have a vocation to teach, or not, but they deserve to be remunerated for the time and effort they spend

It's just symptomatic of this societies lack of respect or care for children really.

Original poster
purits · 24/04/2008 09:27

"teachers aren't paid enough to put up with the crap"

So why target the pay? Why not target the crap? Surely you would prefer a less well paid but also less stressful job.

OP posts:
Original poster
purits · 24/04/2008 09:27

"have you written to your MP about these subjects purits (I did and got a 4 page form letter of bollocks back from teh Education Minister)"

Presumably I, as an individual, would get the same response. Union muscle has more power. So why don't they use it?

OP posts:
Twiglett · 24/04/2008 09:30

union muscle has no power if there is no potential for direct action

the NUT and headteacher's union are both opposed to SATs .. got them nowhere

the point of writing to your MP is that some bean-counter in the government will be responsible for collating how many 'voter' objections come in on particular subjects .. the more people who write to complain the more they will come to the realisation that we don't buy the crap

SquonkTheBeerGuru · 24/04/2008 09:31

no, purits. I don't care how much shit the kids give him if he comes home with a decent enough wage so that I don't have to put the rent on the credit card every month.

I think that he would feel a hell of a lot better as well.

Teachers do not earn a living wage. If they did, then the shit that they put up with might be worth striking about.

Original poster
purits · 24/04/2008 09:34

Teachers don't earn a living wage!!!?
I know people who earn less than half of what your average teacher gets.

OP posts:
cornsilk · 24/04/2008 09:35

Did they go to University for 4 years to achieve that wage purits?

Cammelia · 24/04/2008 09:35

Its appalling that teachers pay has become to be seen as compensation for putting up with crap

SquonkTheBeerGuru · 24/04/2008 09:36

dp earns 21 grand a year.

there are five of us.

perhaps your mates who earn less could give me some tips on how to manage on our huge income?

Original poster
purits · 24/04/2008 09:39

"Did they go to University for 4 years to achieve that wage"
The question is not whether the pay is suitable recompense for 4 years' study but if it counts as 'a living wage'.

OP posts:
cornsilk · 24/04/2008 09:40

No I think both points are valid.

SquonkTheBeerGuru · 24/04/2008 09:41

well... you do go to university on the assumption that at the end of four years of being an impoverished student you will be able to get a job that earns more than your average tesco check-out operator.

(not that there's anything wrong with check-out operators, you understand...)

mimismummy · 24/04/2008 09:42

I am fully behind the teacher's strike. Why shouldn't they campaign fo a fair pay rise - they work long hours, take work home with them over their holidays, do a lot of extra curricular stuff, have to deal with so much stress etc etc. I am against SATS etc too, just as are most teachers, but that is a different matter to which parents and teachers together should campaign. i am a nurse, earn less than the avarage tecacher but do not begrudge them striking at all. Just because they earn marginally more than me doesn't mean they earn enough for the job they do. this government always fails to prioritise the public sector workers and then wonders why we all leave - leaving education, the nhs etc in an even worse state. And, no, purits, your income should reflect the effort you put in to get the job (ie the training req) as well as the demands of the job itself.

purpleduck · 24/04/2008 09:43

I agreee with Twig
Its up to the parents to advocate for their own children.

Teachers DO NOT make enough!!!

They have one of the greatest responsibilities in our society, and they should get paid accordingly.

My dh works with mobile phones, and makes almost DOUBLE. Nice for us, but how screwy is that?

Children should be valued so much more than technology

I'm not a teacher btw.

scaryteacher · 24/04/2008 09:44

The government are supposed to have targeted the 'crap' but have signally failed to do so, as much of this comes from what children learn in the home...'education is a waste of time; you're a woman, I don't have to be polite to you; I don't want to work why do I need GCSEs'; and the constant low level disruption because they haven't been taught manners, or any respect for the rest of the human race!

I would have preferred a less stressful job, but as the pay wasn't great, not a less well paid one. I subsidised school as it was by buying pencils, pens, a laminator, text books, videos, my own laptop, the list is endless.

You'll also find that 50% of teachers aren't in the NUT, but in the other unions who won't strike because the job has to be done. I also think that it is not so much this year's pay settlement that is the problem; it is the fact that the government wants to be able to set it for the following two years, irrespective of what inflation and the cost of living is doing.

SmugColditz · 24/04/2008 09:45

Why shouldn't it be?

They are employees, not martyrs!

Stix · 24/04/2008 09:54

cornsilk I agree with purits and yes I am and I know many people who have been to University for four years who have a lower wage than a teacher. They also have lots of paper work to wade through and get less holiday.
2.45% rise isn't actually that bad when you consider that many people haven't even had a pay rise this year.
Teachers do know what they are getting into and can leave the job and persue on in industry if they should wish. They will find for the higher wage they will be looking for there is a lot of competition, longer hours and less holiday.
As a main wage it isn't great, but it is better than a lot of people, who are just as educated.

SmugColditz · 24/04/2008 09:58

Good, I'm glad there will be a lot of competition, I want my children taught by the best available, not those who can't find anywhere else!

Stix · 24/04/2008 09:58

IMO I would be happier if the NUT were striking for better support from the government. Targeting the "crap" and putting in better management systems in schools that need it. Making life better for teachers as well as pupils.
IME some of the "management" in some schools would never get a job in managing.