Teachers' strike

[purits]

Considering that teachers are constantly moaning about the National Curriculum, teaching to the test, Ofsted, targets, league tables, disruption in the classroom, etc etc etc: why is the first strike for ages about pay (for them) instead of about conditions (for the kids)?

No they are not! They are striking about money not the conditions.

If we want our education system to flourish, we need not only to recruit good teachers but also to retain them. The only way to do this is make it a job worth being in. Now, lets be realistic, we all work for the money don't we, so surely that would be the place to start. Teachers are striking because their pay rise is below inflation and makes it hard for them to make ends meet. It's all very well saying leave the job, but that is a very short-sighted and unhelpful approach. As for the conditions - well that is largely to do with the national curriculum and all the extra work that entails. Part of the argument is that teachers should get paid more for all that they are taking on. So it is related to the conditions. As for the complaints about SATS etc, this is something we should all be taking up because it affects all our children. Why should we expect teachers to take a day off work unpaid to complain about an education policy that many of know is not benefitting our children - we, the parents, should be taking action about this,

IMO/E quite a few go into teaching because they know there is a job there at the end of study ( some subject I know are harder to get a teaching job in). I have a couple of friends who have done just this. After a year of not getting a job in industry they went into teaching, one of these has now left teaching. This person is now currently looking to returning because he has worked in industry and teaching seems to be the better option, with regard to stress levels, hours holiday and pay in current industry job!
If we could offer our teachers decent working conditions, where pupils are controlled, environment is clean and supplies are always there when needed. If they could go into school and teach. IMO the pay and holidays would make up for the marking / paperwork they have to do.

(I personally can see why people are complaining about having to take the day off work because of the strikes, for some of these people the strike is causing them loss of monies to their families and they aren't on as high a wage as teachers in the first place.)

very true stix - re retention

A lot of the WRONG people probably go into teaching in the first place - I know of a couple

You can't vet them like PRIESTS can you with vocation panels

Agree that teachers should teach,which all this obsession with standardsand results does not allow them to do.
It is the same for nurses,they should be allowed to nurse,instead of endless form filling and beaurocracy and target driven care with which this government is obsessed.
IMO the so called reforms of the NHS and Education systems in this country have resulted in systems which benefit very few,if any of our clients and none of the staff.

I left teaching two years ago to move abroad, and I would have been M6 (top of the main scale). I've just checked and my salary if I'd stayed would have been £29k+ now I think, so not anywhere near the £34,000 quoted. To achieve that, one has either to take on extra responsibility or apply to get through threshold, which is a lot of extra paperwork and proving what value you have added to the school.

The average teacher does NOT earn £34,000 outside London at all.

If we were paid for just teaching, then it would be OK, but is the associated crap that goes with it all; sorting out quarrels, being a social worker, chasing up parents and students, not being able to make a flip comment in the supermarket to a student without the fecking parent complaining the next day, paying to feed some of the students because they don't have lunch with them, people not turning up for appointments when you've stayed in school until 1800 to see them and it's not parents' evening, dealing with stoned kids period 5 every Friday, which disrupts the lesson, teaching 600+ kids a week and having all the reports for these students packed into a term along with behaviour, effort and attainment grades. I could go on....

Yes, I had long holidays, which I used to catch up with marking and planning for next term, although I did have some weeks where I didn't work. I used to work on average 60 hours a week in term time. Realistically, if you are marking a set of 32 books, and you give each book 3 minutes to ensure that all the errors are corrected, and comments are written, you are looking at 90 minutes per set of books. I tried to mark two sets a night, as I taught about 17 different classes. There is planning on top of that, which takes time, especially for AS level. I also did 4 unpaid after school sessions per week to teach GCSE and run a revision course.

I think that people don't realise that a schemes of work and lesson plans are not done. We have to look at what the NC prescribes, and then produce the SoWs, lesson plans and resources from that. These also have to be regularly rewritten to keep up with any changes and studies that have been done into methods of learning etc. New methods of teaching come in, so you have to adapt to those and ensure that everyone is teaching in the same way.

Oh, and some of us have our own kids as well!

As for having one of the best pension schemes...that would be the scheme to which all the MPs belong wouldn't it? We contribute to our pension scheme at 6% of our salary, so it is not like a civil service pension. However, it is hopefully a secure pension, but that was always the payback for working in the public sector, that the pension would be good.

"IMO the so called reforms of the NHS and Education systems in this country have resulted in systems which benefit very few,if any of our clients and none of the staff."

Things can only get better, can only get better.

Yes I much preferred it when you had to wait 2 years to see anyone

when they say that the avg teacher is on £34,000 they are actually factoring in what senior managers make as well dept heads etc. too as they are also teachers. lets say the avg senior manager about £70,000. (deliberately using a figure far below the 100,000 for a HT being bandied about by the BEEB). I can see how it looks like a lot of teachers are on 34,000 when actually the majorit of teachers are earning between 25 and 30,000 when it all averages out.

Not just about waiting lists though Morningpaper.There is a lot more than the Nhs than surgery.I agree waiting times for most operations have gone down,and of course that is no bad thing. But it is a fallacy that the NHS has improved across the board,and the obeseeion with waiting lists has been at the expense of other services.
Off the subject though!

I know exactly what your saying scaryteacher.
Yet I still think a lot of the problems are due to management.(A bit of background here, I come from and married into teaching families from class teachers, principals and ofstead inspectors. I don't teach although I do consider changing career on occasions, knowing the real life of a teacher and wage.)
The most off putting part for me isn't the planning/ paperwork, extra hours etc.. it's that in some cases a lot of stress could be relieved by better management.
A very good friend of the family was what would be considered a trouble shooting head. Head would be put into failing schools to turn them around. With good management he achieved this. Turning around some of the most awful schools. The teachers really appreciated being able to go into a class to teach. Would I want to teach with this support? yes.. would I teach with the support that seems to be shown in my DS1 school.. NO. I am not just finger pointing at some heads either some LEAs can make life difficult for heads. Putting them between a rock and a hard place.
IMO I just think that if the strikes were based soley around conditions, all of the unions joined in the strike then it 1, I feel that teachers would have more support and 2, striking might actually achieve something other than causing a bit of disprution and disgruntling parents who may have to take unpaid time off work.

We live in an area where the wage for a good job is about 18-20K. There are some better wages and some a lot worse. So recieving between 25 and 30k a year from main wage earner isn't really that bad. We also don't have childcare problems during the holidays.

I agree with ST about the average salary. Every news article is quoting this 34k figure which is only statistically average when it includes London.

A teacher elsewhere in the country who is at the top of the pay scale earns just over 29k.

Starting salary for teachers has risen sharply in recent years but the pay scale was adjusted to make the increments smaller so they basically reach the same place. Starting salary was raised to encourage more graduates to teach. IMO, we should concentrate on retaining those already qualified.

I'm a teacher and although the salary's not great, it's not that bad either. But then in my house, it's the second income. It certainly wouldn't pay my mortgage or keep my kids. Yes the holidays are good and no I don't work at all during 5 of the 6 summer weeks nor at Christmas. I do, however do a lot during half term breaks. Teacher's however, cannot take days off here and there. Cannot go away within term time nor can they take a half day to attend their kids Christmas play or sports day.

And yes, everyone else I know who has 3 good A levels, a good degree plus a post grad qualification is earning more than me.

Keep in mind also that many teachers (myself included) are members of other unions who voted not to strike but are at home today (being paid ) because the schools could not cover all the NUT staff.

Last point. Low level disruption,as mention by another poster, is of far greater concern to every other primary teacher I know. But then, primary teaching is dominated by women and the reality is that for a great many of them, their salary is the second wage.

Totally support the strike over pay. My child's education is one of the most important things I can 'do' for him and as I can't at present afford private school, he has to be in state school

I want his education to be the best it can be, and that is most likely to happen if his teachers are paid at a higher level; more retention of staff, more consistency and stability in the classroom meaning better learning and less disruption, and more recruitment of high calibre people, and society showing that it places a high value on those people who spend their days educating our children.

Having said that, I do wish ALL teachers would come out on strike against SATS / targets/ testing/ teaching to the test AS WELL, but that is not just their job that is down to parents as well.

and it does annoy me when Teachers are supposed to be more saintly, more altruistic than any other part of the workforce...

other professions may strike over pay too, and not be berated for NOT striking about other people's conditions; we wouldn't be sniffy and judgemental about Nurses' striking for more pay and say "how awful that they are not walking about because some patients are on a 3 month waiting list!"

walking OUT not about!

I agree with everything you've just said, HG!

The government answer to the teaching shortage ten or so years ago was all wrong. Instead of improving conditions, they inreased places and started giving training grants. All wrong IMHO.
Firstly, it meant people getting on to courses with one E at A level. Secondly, it encouraged dozy graduates without direction to do PGCEs because it was something to do, they got a grant and they'd get a job at the end.

Not only do I want my kids to be taught by well qualified people, I don't want to have to gently explain to another teacher that Norfolk is not the county that surrounds Newcastle. Nor do I want to have to say that they were wrong to cross out the 's' in practise and change it to a 'c' when the child had written I like to practise my skipping. (Both true)

Encourage good graduates, offer us reasonable pay and conditions that reflect our qualifications and don't stifle us or the kids we teach with endless changes, initiatives, tests and targets. Easy!

There is obvious and clear dissapointment with the eductaion system at the mo. My ds is preparing for his yr 6 SATS and is really stressed - ridiculous at his age.and I wonder what would happen if we staged a big SATS boycott......?

PS totally agree with you cc and hg!!

Stix, where I live few people make that as a first income too. I do not see how the fact that i make more than the avg in my area has anything to do with what I earn. Most people in my area are either chronically unemployed, choose not to look for work or are in low paid work. they also did not go to sixth form or beyond and many left school without doing GCSE's in the days when that was allowed or if they did them performed poorly. My husband and 2 other students from his leaving year went on to university.

I don't really see why my comparatively low wage when one considers that I have to keep up with my continuous professional development after uni, then post grad means that my wage is compared to the lower wage earners in my neighbourhood.

I don't have childcare problems, during the holidays, not because I don't work during the holidays but because I pay full time nursery fees for the child I have. I pay them whether or not she attends nursery. I have a second on the way and for a time I will only be going go work to keep the household budget ticking over and keeping up with my pension payments and keeping my job and professional development going. I happen to like the school I work in and I don't want to have to compete with younger grads who will be more hireable than I should I take a career break. (More hireable because they are cheaper than me, not because they are better than me.)

The point being the strike is about pay. When the lower wage hard working folk have have to loose money from taking the day off because of the strike. Then comparisons will come up about the pay as an average and in different areas will come up. Whether you have been to university or not.
Teachers strike about pay and then don't seem to like it when their pay/holidays are compared.
In every industry there will alawy be cheaper people to employ this just goes across the board.
Giving a payrise is not IMO going to change the standard within our schools.
Maybe there should be an overtime bonus given as appreciation for the changes within the job. IE those who put more time into the job get a better pay?

Talking of pay, I ought to actually get some work done ! LOL

hmm, other public servants strike on pay too. other people still whinge. same difference.

It is tough that some parents will have to lose wages to cover child care. It is factored in that there will be some upset among the public. It is partly the reason that this is the first strike in 20 yrs.

Should the shit really hit the fan, the gov't and parents may start to value teachers more.

DH heads a dept which is partly staffed by those who are not qualified in the subject, who struggle with classroom management and one who is barely intelligible.

He is a maths and physics post grad; few are now taking those degrees and even fewer choose to go into education. He is certainly the lowest paid of his graduate friends.

He has chosen to go into work today as he will be attending a ss case conference. I am striking today (but not shouting outside olive's house ) because if you pay peanuts...