Is anyone here prepared to say that they believe in anthroposophy?

[Greensleeves]

There's been so much conjecture about it/testimony from parents etc who had negative experiences of Waldorf education, or who say that they weren't aware of anthroposophy/the esoteric spiritual side of Steiner.

What I haven't seen (apologies if I missed it!) is someone come on and say "yes, I am an anthroposophist, come and ask me questions and I will clarify how it works"

Anyone? I would be really, really, interested.

I think there is an important difference between children being required to read Shakespeare (some of whose plays contained views we now consider racist) as one part of the curriculum, and an entire education system based on the beliefs of a person who had views we now consider racist.

If the whole of the state school curriculum was based on the views expressed by Shakespeare then I would have a problem with it. Depending on how the issues raised by "The Merchant of Venice" were handled in the school, I might well have a problem about that too.

However, in answer to your question, no I would not have a problem with my son reading or acting in "The Merchant of Venice", as I believe I have brought him up to recognise that such views exist in the world, and that he is mature enough not to simply "absorb" such views without thought. There is also an issue of age here - at 14 he is able to separate his own views from those he is exposed to, whereas a 5 year old being shown those views in a context which normalises them does not have the maturity to make this distinction.

(It's actually irrelevant - he's doing Hamlet.)

This is complete piffle. To compare "enforced" teaching of Shakespeare to Steiner? What utter nonsense.

Pete - a male teacher at my children's school (who thankfully did not last long there), was interviewing a 10 year old and asked him to read a story containing an account of a snake entering a woman's vagina. The other teachers confronted him about it after the family complained, but it does make you wonder

ShirelyGhostman
There are so many Shakespeare plays to choose from, I would be happier if they didn't actually do the Merchant of Venice. I remember feeling uncomfortable as a child years ago, (in a quite Jewish school) when Shylock's speech was disected.
But I see what you're getting at.
And of course, there is much literature, not just Shakespeare, which is dodgy.

The thing about Steiner schools and race is

1. They hide and deceive parents about their entire belief system( anthroposophy)
2. Anthroposophy's central tenet is reincarnation, and man's spiritual journey to higher incarnated planes 3)The spiritual journey involves the jettisoning of "lower" races, in order for the "higher" races to progress spiritually 4)The fact that there are "primitive" races still around at the same time as "perfect" races, is a mistake, brought about by interference from Lucifer and Ahriman. The "primitive" races should have died out.

These are the central beliefs of anthroposophy, which is the root of steiner education.

Janni- That's incredible! Which main lesson was that?

AMum, good post.
And Shakespeare isa small part of the curriculum, and at 14( or 12 my daughter first did Shakespeare) the points can be discussed appropriately.
At steiner school it's BASED on these theories, taken as a given.
Big difference.

It was an experimental introduction to early sex education, Northern

OMG Janni!
I remember the parent's evenings surrounding sex education tense
There were the parents who believed in "no boundaries", ( whose kids were at it at 10) and the Christian community ones(anthroposophical church) who couldn't bear to think that their kids weren't still believing the gnomes and fairies, who wouldn't let them go to the cinema even, in case it corrupted them.

We were given an article from a Steiner education Magazine, which brought karmic destiny into the story of birth, creation and how a child finds its parents....

Oh yes, I know ones whose kids didn't go to the cinema until well past 10 years and whose marriage nearly broke up because DH wanted to watch TV.

Yep

The first film some of the 10 yr olds( ten must be a steiner viewing watershed!) went to see was Lassie. And it was a really big deal.
The kids from camphill, some of whom barely left the village, used to be almost overstimulate when they came to our house, by the pictures on the walls and the books etc. Their eyes would dart about, trying to take everything in, Poor poor kids, I really feel for them. And kind of draw some tenuous parallells with that mormon evangelical place in the news at the moment, the closed community, well, camphill isn't closed, but cut off, separate from the main goings on in the world.

"Pete - a male teacher at my children's school (who thankfully did not last long there), was interviewing a 10 year old and asked him to read a story containing an account of a snake entering a woman's vagina. The other teachers confronted him about it after the family complained, but it does make you wonder"

Sadly, I don't wonder about these people any more... I'm positive they are nuts.

"Pete - a male teacher at my children's school (who thankfully did not last long there)"

Forgot to notice this part - so WHERE did the teacher go from there? I've got ten dollars (apologies to our UK friends, I don't know the current rate of exchange) that says he quietly went to another WALDORF school. There is NEVER an infraction serious enough for a teacher to be removed from teaching at Waldorf - they just get shuffled between schools. As I said earlier, the monster that read inappropriate materials to my own child is now TRAINING OTHER TEACHERS in the "Waldorf" way.

PeteK - someone saw him helping another school at the Olympic Games, the same year he left our school. There was another
class V teacher who finally left after years of problems. She went straight to another Steiner School. You're absolutely right.

Pete and Janni,
Two teachers from the school our children were who have been "difficult", (one resigned, but after tremendous pressure) are moving on to another prestigious Steiner school!
The letter to parents apparently said "A happy outcome.and time to put the past aside"{hmm]

Happened twice in 3 years at our school - once we shipped off a problem teacher (hitting children) to another Steiner school, and once we inherited a problem teacher from another school. They keep 'em in the system.

We inherited one teacher who had been fired from a nearby school because her teenage son was a pedophile and she had been arranging sleepovers with other children for him. Since it was an ongoing case - the school felt they shouldn't mention any of this to the parents... UNTIL... guess what happened? Yep... in our school too. . And now she has quietly moved on... perhaps to YOUR SCHOOL.

So- no one prepared to say they're an anthroposophist?
I've just asked some one here if they are
mothering USA

and here is an interesting one
linda on my quote about hair and eyes

Neither have answered the questions yet.... surprise surprise

Don't forget Anthroposophical librarian...

I started a thread called "Would anyone here call themselves an anthroposophist?" at mothering.
Someone called Pixiewytch was furious!
Asked the moderator to remove it, said it was inflammatory, going too far!
Good grief!
Why are they so sensitive about it? It really is amazing.
it's like saying would anyone admit to being a nazi isn't it?
I won't last there much longer.
Can't BEAR the pussy footing around. But I enjoy being "nice" to Linda and Deborah with facts they can't wriggle out of....

Oh Diana and Pete, thank goodness for Americans who speak straight and upfront! I thought all of you were like that, (my USA friends are very outspoken)

Mad as a box of frogs is good isn't it?

Someone has posted a link to this coversation on mothering!
Maybe they'll take notes.

It would be great if they would link to the other Steiner threads here as well.

This one filled up
This one is currently in progress...

I'm sure there are others here.

I think it's interesting that on Mothering.com, the thread with the analogous title to this one, asking for anthroposophists who might be reading to identify themselves, has been removed. It is a tribute to mumsnet that they allow this sort of discussion. On Mothering, a sanctimonious little notice has been posted reminding posters that it's against the user agreement to defame anyone blah blah. So calling someone an anthroposophist is defaming them? Even asking if there are anthroposophists reading the thread who would care to self-identify as such is defaming someone?

Linda also wrote one of her ridiculous implied Mcarthy-esque posts - like if you ask someone if they're an anthroposophist, next the House of Parliament will be marching them to the guillotine or something. Um - what is wrong with asking someone if they are an anthroposophist and would be willing to speak about anthroposphists' views in the forum? No one has to answer if they don't want to. (Which was sort of the point. It was going to be hard to "defame" anyone even if we wanted to since anthroposophists generally will NOT self-identify unless they think only other anthroposophists are listening. They simply don't want to take questions - their faith doesn't work that way.)

Diana, I missed that, they'd removed it before I saw linda's post. What did she put?
I usually copy these discussions, but I can't be bothered any more, the posters there are so boring.

"Even asking if there are anthroposophists reading the thread who would care to self-identify as such is defaming someone?"

You are not suppose to ask, Diana, you're just supposed to label.

Pete (Secular-humanist, secret member of a small but vocal extremist "hate group" based in S.F. - PLANS, still bitter about a 10-year-old divorce, span of Ahriman and the Anti-Christ)

LOL - that was supposed to be "spawn of Ahriman"... (I don't want to piss Dad off...)