11 plus fears

[curiousmind14]

Hi all. Looking for some support as 11 plus results are only a week or so away in our area. My daughter brought the idea of sitting the test to us. I never shared my concerns with my daughter, or rather my opinion that the Grammar system is no longer catering to bright but underprivileged children as it arguably used to. Anyhow, I put my values to one side and agreed to support her with a tutor because she asked for several months (toward the end of year 4) to give it a go. She is bright so I had confidence she’d have a good shot at passing. As Dad and I are both graduates in related academic subjects, we were also able to support with some elements of the prep. She started mocks tests in April of this year: narrowly missing the pass mark until the summer, where she was scoring a good few marks above. The day of the test she became upset in the VR section; 2 sections came up she’d never seen before (none of her friends had either). I’m worried this has derailed her, but rationally I know we can’t do anything about that now. VR was her strength from the beginning. All of her friendship group have sat the test, and what’s worrying me the most is that she’ll be devastated if she doesn’t pass. Her alternative is a local school that none of her friends are applying for, pass or fail. I do feel immensely proud she’s chosen that herself, despite her friends being important to her: she does feel scared at the prospect of going alone if it comes to that. I feel angry regarding the whole process, particularly the pressure on 10 year olds. How do I support her through this if it doesn’t go her way? In truth I do think she’ll be great at the alternative, she’s very sociable and I’m confident she’d make new friends in time…but I don’t want my daughter to feel a failure at the age of 10. Many thanks

First of all: good luck with the results. Was this the only test she sat? All kids have good and bad days. But if she is unlucky this time, some things we did are: First, reassure that all school options are great, selective and non-selective ones. Second, be honest that these exams have come down to competing against kids that undergo years of tutoring and/or ruthless parental investment and that this not necessarily healthy or something each family/kid values ("we strike a different balance in our family"). Third, praise their performance and ranking, given how competitive these exams are. In communicating, focus on how well they did, not on the fact that they missed the pass mark. Finally, convince yourself that it means nothing. Kids can read parents' feelings/mood immediately and the worst thing is for them to sense that they let their parents down. If they see that it meant nothing for you, and they are generally happy children, they will forget that they didn't pass the next day.

Was that the Birmingham/Warwickshire test? My DD had the same experience, I'm just hoping everyone found those sections difficult. I remind DD that everyone has a range of scores they could achieve, and that on the day, with that specific test, they might score nearer the top or bottom of their range. So the actual score doesn't tell you much about their real ability. It's a horrible, unfair system and kids should feel proud of all the work they put in and for giving the test a try, regardless of the score. I'm also being enthusiastic about the alternative school, but she really fell in love with the grammar school so it's a horrible wait, knowing a good-but-not-good-enough score will close that door for her.

This is really good advice, thanks. I don’t feel she’ll be letting us down at all if she doesn’t pass, but I do worry that I’ll find it difficult to contain my own emotions because I know how much it means to her. Her teacher last year was fantastic as she recognised our daughter would become very upset when she immediately didn’t understand a concept, for example. We’ve all worked hard to build her self esteem and resilience and I can see she’s grown. I’ve always encouraged her only to do her best, and that’s enough. But I am a recovering perfectionist and perhaps she’s internalised some of the way I treat myself. I know other children who didn’t go on holidays, days out etc just to cram for the test. Don’t get me wrong, we did do extra work over the summer, but I tried to stick to my principles and prioritise fun and relaxation. She massively improved her maths from where we started out; I’ve reiterated how valuable that will be regardless of the outcome. And she really enjoyed her tutor group and met a new friend there; she said she’s missed the sessions and the ‘fun’! 😂 Also, she shone when we went to one of the Grammar open evenings (the less academic one but has amazing overall pastoral support). She didn’t want to leave and she said she would even go alone if it came to that (all her friends want to go to the more academic Grammar). Our alternative is fine, and I can easily ‘big it up’ as myself and her Dad went there and did very well. But she has her heart set on the other Grammar. Absolutely, it comes down to one test and one day. I remember being on a seemingly easy trajectory to a top mark in an A Level and I completely bombed the last exam. I did tell my daughter this, but perhaps it was a little premature given the marks aren’t out yet. I just want to give all the children a hug and tell them they’re superstars no matter the outcome.

Ours was the Wirral test. All of the girls said they hadn’t see it. I think my daughter knew her strength was verbal and that was likely going to get her through (as it’s almost 50% of the test here).., Hence the panic. She’s good at maths but dislikes it: much more of an English and humanities enthusiast like her Mum! And absolutely, I know some of the girls mocks scores were all over the place (arguably due to ‘bad days’ or specific question types coming up, or not). It’s hard when they have their heart set on a particular school too. But I guess all we can do is extenuate the positives of the alternative: I have said she can walk to school and will have more time for friends and hobbies (which is true, as the Grammars will require a bus).

It's quite a brutal system with the majority unfortunately not getting a place, even those that have been tutored since year 3!. All you can tell her you're extremely proud, and onwards and upwards.

Same situation here, I’m dreading results

Ditto here - we're waiting for Kent results next Thursday. Anyone else in Kent? The system is so brutal!

Good luck to you all with the results. It’s felt more anxiety provoking since the test…I think it’s the wait and having no control over the outcome. Agreed, absolutely brutal system. I didn’t want to consider starting any work until year 5, hence why I put it off (in addition to principles around paying for tuition, elitism etc). But in truth I think we could have burnt out if we started earlier…but I was honest with my daughter that she wouldn’t learn most of the material in school (the maths was definitely not year 5 material!) so the expectation was that if she wanted to do it, the commitment to learning was down to her and we and her tutor would support the process. She’s been committed throughout and we’re very proud…I don’t think I would have had the stamina at this age. I know I’m being negative predicting a negative outcome, but it seems a hard lesson to learn at the age of 10 that hard work doesn’t necessarily pay off. Again, wishing best of luck to you all, and some peace over the next week or so

I ensured my DC's were clear in the knowledge that it was a test to see which school would be better for them, rather than something they passed or failed. They did the test because they chose to, they weren't tutored other than a bit of BOFA during the summer hols in the lead up. When they went to grammar school I could be confident that they had the aptitude to be there and they didn't feel defined by the idea that they had somehow 'won'. It's a horrible, divisive test at a very sensitive age. Parents are generally the biggest problem for kids taking this test. If you are chill about it, they are likely to cope with any disappointments with more ease.

@dermalermalurd I admire your perspective re not being defined by the idea of winning. I’ve really tried to reiterate something similar to my daughter…but…I have no control over the competition that seems to permeate her friendship group. I can’t say with confidence that my daughter isn’t part of this. She’s fiercely competitive and she was fixated on one of her friends who scored above 80% in her first mock test (although she did say well done, her Mum messaged me to say how gracious she was). She looks for the highest achiever and sets herself against that. Again, really, really tried to change her mindset. Some silly comments have been said about ‘getting a rubbish job’ if you don’t pass the 11 plus. In my family, two have passed the 11 plus, two haven’t. Very little difference re academic attainment and later success. I appreciate there’s a lot that determines happiness and success in life than other than grades. I also have great admiration for those that decided to self tutor exclusively; for us she responds alot better to a formal teacher, and despite me and her Dad being fairly academic, we’re not particularly good teachers! My task was easy(ish) as she loved verbal. One of friends self tutored and she cracked by April this year (her daughter was actually doing really well though) so I praised how far they’d come. On a positive, we’re not missing the tutoring nights and she’s taken up a new hobby we couldn’t fit in otherwise :)

Whatever your dd feels about the result, it will pass all the quicker when she sees her parents are unbothered by it all. As someone who has been working with teenagers in education for years now and I have three of my own, I would caution you against making too much fuss if she does pass. Praising her for the hard work she put in for it is relevant whether she passes or not. If you focus on 'what a clever girl she is for passing' you are setting her up to feel that academic achievement is the measure of a person's worth. This can have some fairly unpleasant consequences for their judgement of others as well as of themselves.

@dermalermalurd I consciously organised a treat day for the girls a week after the exam to celebrate their huge effort. I reflected on the consequences of doing this after the results and envisaged how detrimental it could be. Perhaps I’m too focused on how badly she may take it, and that may not be the case at all. I’m generally quite calm under pressure and I work as a mental health professional so emotionally self regulating self and others is part of the role…much harder to extend to myself and DD in this situation though! I like your point re not judging others or self on the basis of academic achievement. Consciously I try not to do this, but I’m willing to accept I probably do have some prejudice in this respect. I recently went back to graduate training and deliberately kept results to myself as I couldn’t bare the comparisons. DD has been painting all evening; she seems vibrant and happy. Starting to think this is more my issue!

@floun this is really reassuring to hear, thank you. DD came out of the exam with a tissue as she’d cried in the exam, but she said she thought it when well overall and found it easier than the mocks. In truth I felt ashamed of myself for putting her through this at that time; but then I reflected she brought this to us (albeit from friends already being tutored and bringing home a leaflet from her school about Grammars). I never wanted her to be upset about an exam, not least the cause of it. It’s been a huge parenting learning curve.

That's really nice, glad to hear your dd is managing well. Good luck to her. The choice of secondary school is a tricky one. My third and Final teen is in year 11 now. We make the best call we can given the information available to us at the time but we can't always get it right. We have had mixed fortunes where schools are concerned. I assumed grammar would be best but that wasn't always true. The most important factor is a half decent cohort in their year group. It makes so much difference to their experience of school. All the best.

You mention that the non selective school is not one any of her friends would be going to. Where would they be going and do you have any alternative options to consider?

I understand your feelings but I think you need to work hard to keep them in check. We are also awaiting results and I'm not keen about the non selective option for my son, but they all have their pros/cons. SEN support is much better and he would have a less pressured time of it. I also keep reminding myself that our tutor had one son pass and go to the grammar, the other didn't and went to the 'secondary modern'. He got better GCSE/A level results than his grammar school brother, so that says it all really!

You talk about her getting about the pass mark on some mocks, so she may naturally do better at a non selective school anyway, being higher up the cohort. There are many children getting 80%+ on these mock exams naturally, so aside from wanting a grammar school, you do need to remind yourself to focus on what might be the best for your child. Good luck!

@yoshiblue best of luck to your son also :) DDs other friends will either go to our most local comp (literally 2 mins walk from our house) or a bus ride to a religious school about 7 miles away. We wouldn’t get a place at the religious one as she’s not baptised and we’re out of catchment. Our most local one our DD dislikes: it’s a huge school and she likes the other local school (about a 20 min walk away) as it’s much smaller and has a good emphasis on pastoral support. We did encourage her to try the most local one, but she still didn’t like it. There have been problems with mass substance misuse and bullying, but I don’t fear this would necessarily be a problem for our DD as she’s quite outspoken and has a knack of getting along with different personality types. She won’t entertain it though so I’m somewhat at peace that at least she likes the non selective she’s chosen and she will most likely get a place.

I have wondered whether she would fair better at a non selective due to her perfectionism. Better in top sets than swimming middling to bottom at a Grammar. However, I do have colleagues whose kids scraped into Grammar and are doing just fine. Perhaps we’ll never know how children will respond to more pressure and a faster pace of learning, and she is much more gracious with herself than she used to be. Other Mums keep reminding me I won’t have to worry about DD due to her personality. Trying to embrace this, but she’s a sensitive soul underneath her gregariousness

@curiousmind14 I would at least hold onto the fact that she still has a 'choice'. If the result doesn't go her way she can go very local with her friends or on her own 20 mins away. You never know if she may waver depending on who passes/not.

I also remind myself we have two options we'd definitely get into. Although neither is ideal, we still have a choice, so I am embracing that! 😀

@yoshiblue good advice re emphasising choice :) it could worse if they didn’t like any of the local schools. I do feel more relaxed about it following all these posts: thank you all :) Still think it’s a rubbish an outdated process the outcome being based on one test though. But I quickly realised we cannot change the system as it stands! I just hope all the children and parents are gracious with the outcomes from next week regardless. But I can’t control that either. My hunch is most will be :)

There is so much good advice here. The system is brutal and corrupt, to maintain the status quo and hinder social mobility. To suit vested interests. DO NOT LET IT DESTROY YOUR DAUGHTER’S CONFIDENCE. The only failures here are the morons in power that let this barbaric and unjust system persist. We can teach our children to be much better. The world is their oyster, an adventure to be enjoyed not a problem to be solved. Teach them to smile, be happy and contribute to society in a positive way. Move on, do not dwell on 11+ results!!!!

All of this
When dd was at primary school she took the 11+. She passed and got into the grammar school while her equally clever friend did not pass..
Dd’s friend achieved all 9’s in her GCSEs and is now at the same university as DD
Just want to remind parents that if their DCs don’t get the grammar school place this does not mean that their future is bleak.

@Lampzade good insight, thanks ☺️ I’ve spoken to her teacher and we all feel she’ll be great at a grammar or non selective. I don’t think it will make a huge difference academically: if a child wants to reach their goals they can irrespective. It’s more the fall out over the next few months if it doesn’t go her way, but we’ve really tried to reiterate that it’s not the measure of her worth and she’ll be fantastic grammar or no. Lots of pluses to the local school re travel and potentially less pressure. Thanks all :)

@curiousmind14 how did you get on?

@yoshiblue many thanks for asking. She passed by a significant margin! I feel a sense of relief more than anything else. She was happier than we’d ever seen her. I still stand by my original thought that this is a hugely unfair process and the potential damage it can do to young people. That’s what I feared if she didn’t pass, even though we tried to reiterate how proud we were of her dedication and tenacity. We know some who didn’t pass who were also very bright and had a similar level of tutoring (at least from what I know). One exam, on one day, to determine if you’re ’grammar appropriate’. Bonkers. The whole system is! I can also think of many other advantages we’ve had in our family (both parents being graduates, for example) that others didn’t have.

How did your son get on? Sending genuine peace your way irrespective of the outcome :)

Well done to your dd. I think sometimes we underestimate their true abilities. Do you have tips for the 11+ my dd is set to sit the exam in September